Help trouble shooting a starter?

[jasoutside]

1984 Evinrude 90HP

So a while back I got my new to me engine running (you can see it there in my signature).

Since then I swapped out the manual Tilt for power T&T, installed a new water pump, cleaned it up, painted it, and made all the connections just like they were before (well I think I did).

So today I made the final ignition connections and just bumped the key to see what's up. Well, no good.

The starter spins but it appears the wrong way (counter clockwise) and doesn't pop up to engage the flywheel.

What's up? What did I do wrong here?

Thanks in advance guys

 

[rheagler]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

This is just a crazy guess, but could the polarity be reversed causing it to run backwards? The not popping up could be a bad relay or solenoid. I'm not sure if/how reversed polarity would affect that.

 

[boobie]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

If it's spinning counter-clock wise looking at it from the top, that is the proper rotation. Bendix may be stuck or bad battery or connections.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

I hope this makes some sense what I'm trying to figure eh?

 

[Solittle]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

When the starter spins it will (should) force the bendix up the starter shaft to engage the flywheel.

 

[Will Bark]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

As Boobie said, "if it's spinning counter clockwise, that is the correct way" may have a stuck bendix or it needs a little oil or the starter is dragging from worn brushes. Good luck

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

Ok thanks guys. I guess I was assuming I made a bad connection somewhere since it naturally lifts up to the flywheel spinning it clockwise (by hand).

So, it's spinning fast/hard counter clockwise, and that part is correct, then my connections should be AOK.

If the bendix easily moves into place by spinning (by hand) clockwise would it be "stuck" going the other direction?

Maybe a dumb question, sorry.

 

[boobie]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

Post a video of what happens when you turn the key to start position.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

Post a video of what happens when you turn the key to start position.

Will do boobie, I'll need to wait till morning to post one up. Sorry, should have included that right off.

It basically just gets a good/solid spin counter clockwise. I can see it jump up just a smidge, maybe a 1/4" but a long way to go in order to engage the flywheel.

Coffee and starter video in the a.m.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

think of the starter as a screw if you hold the bendex the starter turning makes the bendix go up (try it by holding the bendix and turning the nut on top of the starter). the bendix is not mean to realy turn until it gets to the top and engages the fly wheel. when the starter stops spinning the force of the flywheel against the bendix will spin it down out of the way. the bendix looks free from the video so that means its not spinning fast enoght. check all connections are clean and tight then if that doesnt work the starter needs to be pulled, stripped and cleaned. its a 30 min job to strip the starter once open clean the brushes with a fine nail file board and make sure they move easy, clean the grooves in between the copper sections where it contacts the brushes a sharp nail dragged away from the center works then lubricate bushings and reasemble.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

forgot to add thats a real nice looking boat

 

[mark1961]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

Ok thanks guys. I guess I was assuming I made a bad connection somewhere since it naturally lifts up to the flywheel spinning it clockwise (by hand).

So, it's spinning fast/hard counter clockwise, and that part is correct, then my connections should be AOK.

Gday mate, engines in general terms turn in a clockwise direction so the starter has to operate anticlockwise to turn it the right way.

If the bendix easily moves into place by spinning (by hand) clockwise would it be "stuck" going the other direction?

Maybe a dumb question, sorry.

Similar to before, the starter needs to turn anticlockwise to force the bendix up the spiral on the shaft to engage the flywheel.....try this, hold the bendix still while rotating the starter shaft anticlockwise......get the picture? The starter does not have direct drive on the bendix until it reaches the top of the spiral by which time it will be engaged with the flywheel, the bendix never actually turns clockwise at all. How dry is the starter shaft under the bendix? White lithium grease works a treat on those.....failing that you may have a worn bendix, they are replaceable.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

think of the starter as a screw if you hold the bendex the starter turning makes the bendix go up (try it by holding the bendix and turning the nut on top of the starter). the bendix is not mean to realy turn until it gets to the top and engages the fly wheel. when the starter stops spinning the force of the flywheel against the bendix will spin it down out of the way. the bendix looks free from the video so that means its not spinning fast enoght. check all connections are clean and tight then if that doesnt work the starter needs to be pulled, stripped and cleaned. its a 30 min job to strip the starter once open clean the brushes with a fine nail file board and make sure they move easy, clean the grooves in between the copper sections where it contacts the brushes a sharp nail dragged away from the center works then lubricate bushings and reasemble.

Thanks glenn! OK, the mechanics of this is working into my squirrel sized brain.

Everything is clean/new/tight so I should be all good there. But, I was just thinking of something this morning (bolded your words up there). The only real difference between when I first ran it and now is that I am using a smaller batt, 500CCA. I was thinking this was big enough, right? When I first ran it I think it was hooked up to a 650CCA maybe.

forgot to add thats a real nice looking boat

Thanks man, I'm just about in the home stretch on this project

Gday mate, engines in general terms turn in a clockwise direction so the starter has to operate anticlockwise to turn it the right way.



Similar to before, the starter needs to turn anticlockwise to force the bendix up the spiral on the shaft to engage the flywheel.....try this, hold the bendix still while rotating the starter shaft anticlockwise......get the picture? The starter does not have direct drive on the bendix until it reaches the top of the spiral by which time it will be engaged with the flywheel, the bendix never actually turns clockwise at all. How dry is the starter shaft under the bendix? White lithium grease works a treat on those.....failing that you may have a worn bendix, they are replaceable.

Anti clockwise? Man, I love that term! That has to be other side of the planet dialect

The shaft is oiled up real well. I pulled that top nut/spring and worked in some oil on the shaft. That should be all good I think.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

Video action...

 

[concept10]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

I've had that problem on the three Evinrude's I have. Besides lubricating and greasing that bendix area, I've had success by lightly tapping that area with a rubber mallet many times.

I know, it sounds simple, but it has worked for me every time.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

AH! I got it figured!

I kept thinking through anything I did different from when I first ran it. New battery cables! See, I used the same gauge cables but the run was double what it was previously due to the way I routed em.

I just swapped em out, that starter jumped right into the flywheel - NICE!

Little embarrassing, dunno how I didn't think of that before!:facepalm:

Easy fix all the same!

Thanks for the help fellas

 

[boobie]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

Did the mtr turn over good then ??

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

I just bumped it to be sure the starter was doing what it's supposed to (no fuel, no water yet).

It looks like all is as it should be now, thanks!

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

just as a note the starter is a voilent beast in the video you can hear it whirl up to speed so the bendix is not thrown up before it equals the speed of the starter. a good starter is instantly at full speed you will not hear it whirl up. glad you found the problem was the cable

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Help trouble shooting a starter?

Yah, with the new cables in place the bendix was instantly in the flywheel when I bumped the key. So I do believe with some fuel on board that engine will want to run! Thanks Glenn!