Help metal workers, bending round stock.

[i386]

I'm trying to figure out a way to bend some round stock into squares. Need to be able to make the same size squares every time (around 14 inches). I know some benders have a stop so you can get the right (correct) angle. I think I need 2 stops, one for the angle and another to guage how much material to feed in before it's bent. It'll be 4 90* angle bends, then weld the gap to make a square. The idea is to be able to quickly turn out a bunch of these squares. They must all be the same size. Stock size is 5/16" or less.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

Make a jig out of hardwood...... a hardwood base and pins....... are you looking for square corners? Hardwood with some steel bolts to bend past. 5/16" is not hard to bend and you can even heat the corners with MAP or Propane torch.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

Ayuh,...

All you need is a jig, mounted to something stout enough to take the torque of the bending process...
Bench mounted, maybe...

I've done something like this, on a Jobsite where resources were Short...
I did it by jigging up the corner of an equipment hauling lowbed Trailer... A tag-a-long trailer, with stake pockets running it's length...

We needed about 100 pieces of 1/2" Rebar bent up.... 5/16" will be a piece of Cake...

1 Trick, is to use a piece of Pipe to slide over the roundstock, it forces the Bend to be At the bend-point of the jig,...
Otherwise, if you just grab the end of the stock, it'll tend to bend for it's entire length,...
Rather than Right at the bend point...

 

[i386]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

They don't have to be "square" corners, but the radius need to be as tight as possible. These squares will be part of the frame of a live-catch trap. Being able to make a square with one weld, beats cutting 4 rods and making 4 welds and trying to keep it all square.

I was thinking about something along the lines of what you suggested, but worried it would also require making a tool to bend around the pins. That's when I started thinking it had gotten too complicated.

 

[i386]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

I think Bond-O just addressed my concern.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

Easier said than done. Round stock kinks real easy without the proper tool.
Personally, I would take it to a trim shop where the right equipment exists.
I am in a similar boat now with some thick wall stainless...gotta take it to a welding shop.

 

[Shizzy]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

round stock and round tubing are going to bend different. Stainless and mild steel are going to bend different. I don't really see how round stock would "kink" since it is a solid mass not a tube. if it does give you any issues I would also recommend a little heat on the bending areas. And as mentioned by Bob_VT you need to bend it a little past 90 since you will always get a little spring back. I'm sure this is going to be easier then you are making it out to be.

 

[LongLine]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

How about cutting the stock 28" long, mount in a solid vice, bend into a "L" shape with a pipe, then make two welds per square? Apply heat as needed & possibly "smack" with a hammer in the vice to tighten radius.

Does it have to be made from round stock? Rectangular 1/4 x 1/2 or 3/4 might be easier to weld without warpage.

Tom B.
(LongLine)

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

This should be pretty straight forward and BobVT is about on the money with the jig approach.
However, 1st...how well are you equipped for doing metal work? Do you have shop access for doing this? How about materials?...any metal scrap or sheet around? and the tools to cut/shape it? Grinders? welders? Zip saw/blade? etc?
OR, as Bob mentioned, the option is to make the jig (which is a must in my opinion) out of more easily modified material like wood/hardwood?
So, I386...how are you equipped? Metal working or Wood working? would you job out making of this jig or would you like to do it yourself?
I don't know if you need (2) stops. Once you know the targeted radius you will be putting into the corners the rest is pretty quick math to get an accurate cut length which can be done before hand as straight pieces.
Is the 14" dimension the inside-clear dimension or the approximate centreline to centreline of the roundstock? What is the approx. inner radius you would like to hit on the corners bends? If you want to get me those dimensions I will quickly give you a cut length for your material.
(note: bending 5/16" into a tight corner will be a piece of cake as bondo says...particularly if you use a little heat and some light forging).
One more question: approximately how many do you plan on making....3 or 4?...or more like 20-30 or?
All Good
BP

 

[i386]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

OK here's the long version...


My stepdad has been building live-catch traps. They look similar to these...

The most popular size he builds are about 14"x14"x42". If you look at the traps in the pic you see each end of the frame is a square. His actually have a square on each end, but also one or two in the middle as well. So far, he's been building the squares out of 4 rods which he welds together. The materials to build these have gotten pricey. You can buy a Chinese made trap for a good bit less than you can his. So I thought, well if there's not much we can do about the cost of materials, maybe we can whittle down his time invested.

2 things came to mind...

1. Bend the stock to form the squares. With the right setup, he should be about to turn out 3 or 4 of the squares in a few minutes. In order to do that he needs a bender that can acurately reproduce the part.

2. Once he's got the squares cut, he can put these in to a jig to hold all the parts square while he welds in the rest of the pieces of rod that make the box. I was thinking of incorporating some of these magnetic welding clamps into the jig. They come in many sizes.

He normally builds 1 or 2 traps and waits until they sell before building more.




The shop is pretty well equipped for metal work:

Metal chop saw for cutting the round stock to length.
Hand and bench grinders.
Oxy/Propane torch for heating/cutting anything.
Miller "tombstone" stick welder.
Miller wire welder.
Large 3-phase/2 cyl. air compressor.
Hydraulic press.



We looked at benders like this online...

Some have angle stops and that would be good to get those 90's correct each time, but seems like you'd need to add another stop to keep the sides measured right.

It my mind, the ideal tool would work something like this:

Setup the tool for 90*
Set the "depth stop" for 14" (give er take).
Slide the rod in till it hits the stop.
Bend it.
Slide it again till it hits the stop.
Bend it.
Repeat till you have a square.
Weld the gap.

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

For what he's doing, that bender is overkill. The simplest and most effective jig you can make involves 5 pins and a removable stop. To make the jig, use an already fabricated square and place on 1/2" ply. Then use something (bolts or large nails) to pin the four corners (inside of the square). The fifth pin goes on the outside of the square about 1" away from the "gap". This is where the removable stop goes. slide in the bar to the stop, clamp to the ply. heat and make first bend, remove the stop. Heat and bend around the jig until the last bend is made and the gap can be welded. The fifth pin on the outside creates a pressure point to make sure your first bend is 90*.

Personally I would use 1/8" steel for the jig base, drill holes for 3/8" bolts, chop off the heads and weld the pins from the underside. That way heating directly on the jig doesn't run the risk of starting the jig on fire.

EDIT: HAD an ascii drawing but doesn't work so well on the forum I guess.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

Ayuh,...

I bought 1 of those Benders,+ have Never used it....
I wanted to bend Tubing,... That Ain't the tool...
I'm pretty sure it could be set up to do what you wanta do, But I also agree it's overkill...

Lots of Great Ideas flowing here, a Simple Jig will do what you need, from pieces laying around Dad's shop...

The only thing, or Idea that I'll argue is,...
You Don't need any Heat to bend 5/16" rod/ wire.....

'ell,... I can bend 5/8" rebar with a 4' cheater pipe... 3/4" with alittle Gruntin'...
1" with an 8' pipe...
The Pipe is your powerhouse,+ controls Where the bend happens...
As long as the Jig holds the work of course...

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

yup, you probably don't need to heat the rod to bend it but it will make a nicer bend right at where you want it to be. The squares are hardly structural so you don't need to worry about the heat taking away from the metal. Heating it will also make it so you can just cut the piece and pull by hand without a cheater. Either way will work and Bondo is right about being able to just do it by hand.

From my experience building motorcycle frame jigs, you will scrap a few before they are right. You'll also need to experiment with different setups before you do find one that is right for you and puts you in the time frame you want to make the squares. Make them cheap to begin with, stuff laying around, and just work at it. Once you find something that works for you, either keep it or spend some $$ to make it something that will last years down the road.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

Gee could you POSSIBLY make any more complicated?

Rather than bending each wire individually, buy sheet mesh already made and bend the whole thing in one go in a brake.

Whatever happened to American ingenuity?

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

jonesg, they aren't making each piece of the mesh from what I can see, just one square at either end to provide structure. The rest I'm assuming is covered with pre-made mesh. 2 squares per trap.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

Hey i386 the good news is you can bend it with hundreds of methods..... I have to give you the bad news....... all of the bending is controlled by windows Vista

 

[Bart Sr.]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

I can understand the need to minimize costs. With my 20+ years set up and operation of bending machines the cost of having the bending done can be very high.However you have tapped a veritable wellspring of ingenuity on this site.

Good Luck.You'll get there.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

Being the redneck I am, I've used my log splitter to bend 1/2" rod. I made a die and punch out of angle iron. Was able to bend multiple pieces at once, but it makes it more difficult. Measure precisely and bend on the mark each time and they all will be the same. Just be careful, the last bend making it into the square is a bit tricky as the two ends come together.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Help metal workers, bending round stock.

I'm trying to figure out a way to bend some round stock into squares. Need to be able to make the same size squares every time (around 14 inches). I know some benders have a stop so you can get the right (correct) angle. I think I need 2 stops, one for the angle and another to guage how much material to feed in before it's bent. It'll be 4 90* angle bends, then weld the gap to make a square. The idea is to be able to quickly turn out a bunch of these squares. They must all be the same size. Stock size is 5/16" or less.

OK for 1/4 inch stock its simple and cheap. clamp bender in a vice, $20.
i have one , does 1/4 INCH hardened stainless wire ez.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/k+s/k+s326.htm