Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

[economate]

The motor is a Chrysler Economate, 3.5 HP. It hasn't been run in about 10 years. The previous owner says it was working before he stopped using it.

I didn't do any work on it, other than put fuel on it and tried to start it. It fires, and runs a few seconds before dieing out. The butterfly valve in the carb has 3 positions. Closed, half-closed, and closed. Which position should I use to start it? To run it?

To choke, it says Pull Lever FWD. I did that. The main control has 3 positions. Stop, Start, and Fast. Starting it on Fast is easier than on Start.

With a full choke, lever at Fast, and butterfly closed on the carb, I've gotten it to fire and run for 2-4 seconds. Then it dies.

What can be the problem? I understand I may need to do something with the carb but there aren't any new ones available.

 

[fucawi]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

well you got it to fire and run thats a good start ...your problem lies in the carburetter ...very small jets here so I would take it off ..remove float and needle and soak it in celulose thinners and blow it out with compressed air .....then try again

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

Always include serial#s when asking questions.
Gravity fed,the tank could be full of gunk.Replace all the hoses.The low speed jet probably dirty.Install a small filter in the line.

 

[economate]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

Thanks for the help guys. I think I will need to take apart the carburetor and clean it. Do I really need to go to town and get celulose thinner for it, or can I use something else I can find at home to clean the float and needle?

I figured it wouldn't make sense to include the serial number because there are no new parts available for it and no manuals found for it online. The tank was bone dry and clean when I got the motor. I didn't replace the hoses, but I guess I could try cleaning them. There already is a small filter on the gas line. Thanks again

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

Celulose cleaner is a British way of saying carb cleaner.
Any auto parts place and any carb cleaner spray will work.
Wrong about the manual.I have one.
Parts availale all over the place. Boats.net and Valley sales,Prudenville,Mi

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

Thanks, the Model # is 32H0D and the Serial # is 1457.

I took off the carburetor and there's all kinds of solid stuff stuck in there. What looks to be the float switch is moving, but I guess the whole inside needs to be cleaned with that carb cleaner. I couldn't find the needle you talk about though. If someone has a manual, or knows where I can find that, could you let me know? Thanks again.

 

[lucas_chrysler_1]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

before you do all that work (even though it isnt much) when it starts and runs, push the choke in, then it should run fine, if to procede to carb work

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

I cleaned the carburetor with engine degreaser. Cleaned the float switch, the gas hoses, the gas filter. Put it all back together. Put it on full throttle, opened the butterfly valve on the carb half way, and opened the choke. It started right up and ran fine. I stopped it, and started it again. It worked. I put it on the row boat in the lake. Started it again, it ran great. Unhooked the rowboat and pushed myself off onto the lake. Could not get it to start anymore. It does not even fire now. I've waited for several hours, and tried again, and it doesn't even fire. I tried choke up, choke down, butterfly valve open, closed, half-way closed. What could be the problem now? I cleaned everything and it ran fine. As if the spark plug is disconnected or something, but I didn't touch the spark plug at all....

 

[lucas_chrysler_1]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

look to see what your spark plug looks like, you may have accidentaly adjusted some thing, and way be runnign to rich, thus fowling the spark plug, look at colour, sooty/oil black is fowled, brownish or grayish is good, white is hot form too lean. check for spark! also while you have the plug out check compression

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

The spark plug is the same one that's been there for 10 years probably. It looks brownish black and sooty. But that's the same spark plug that was firing the engine before I cleaned the carb, and made it fire and work after I cleaned it this time. What does it mean to fowl a spark plug? How do I check the spark plug for compression?

 

[lucas_chrysler_1]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

to fowl a spark plug is when deposits of soot and oil cover the surfaces for the spark to jump too, clean this plug(a piece of sand paper between electrodes and sand them clean) then check for spark, if it has spark buy a new spark plug, and then re adjust carburator. and you are not testing the spark plug for compression you are testing the cylinder for compression, you wil need to buy a compression tester (any automotive store sells them, maybe even walmart) it screws into the spark plug hole and then at full throttle, no choke (so carb is fully opened) pull over quickly,5 or 6 times and look at what the gauge on the tester reads

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

Alright, I'll have to run into town and get a compression tester. So meanwhile, I had a hint that maybe the spark plug is bad since it looks so dark and sooty, but I got it to work after I cleaned the carburetor, and even before that, it was firing the engine. So I am thinking that the spark plug may not be the problem. I'll get a new one anyway, but considering all of that, could it be something else?

 

[lucas_chrysler_1]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

check comperssion when you get a chance. if you are runnig an engine that has been in storage for a long time you should run it with twice as much oil in the gas than reccommended, for the first 2 tanks, and it will fowl the plug so bring spares. and if the compression is too low, it will fires maybe even slightly run, but not great or die. SO it maybe too righ and flooding its self out, or fowling the plug. you will have to play with the mixtures to find the "sweet spot" where it runs best, generally i turn the screws out 1.5 turns (from lightly seated) then go from there. turning in or out depending on whick way runs better

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

What screws are you talking about when you say you turn them 1.5 turns? There is only one screw on the whole motor that I can turn by hand. It comes out of the side of the carburetor, and has a spring to push it out. I've tried screwing it in more and out more without much of a result.

Also, in what position should I keep the butterfly valve on the carburetor? There's closed, half-closed, and open.

I appreciate the advice.

 

[lucas_chrysler_1]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

yes the screw with the spring. turn it all the way in, then screw it out 1.5 turns. than adjust from there. and as for the "butter fly valve" is the choke, if should be closed to cold start it (cold start means after sitting a day) then when is starts push the choke in to the open position. if you keep it closed it will die

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

I don't know if the butterfly is the choke. It's a flap right on the carburetor, and according to the writing on it, the choke is the little lever to the right, where the gas comes in.

Here, take a look at this link. It points to an auction on ebay where some guy took this same motor apart and is selling it off by pieces. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carburetor-carb-Chrysler-3-5-hp-economate-outboard-4-/370521470042

It says to choke, pull lever forward. Pull means to pull it onto myself, but forward would mean the other way, which is confusing.

On my motor, that black plastic cover on the carb is half-broken. That way, I can see the butterfly valve and adjust it. That's the screw by the way, on the left of that black plastic.

In the second picture down, you can see that switch for the butterfly valve, just behind the black plastic cover. That's the one I'm talking about that has the three positions.

On the back end, as can be seen in the last picture, there's the other butterfly valve that is controlled by the throttle on the engine I think.

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

still haven't gotten it to fire once since yesterday. Changed the spark plug and still nothing.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

Install a sparkie in line.Then see if your not getting any spark.They sell these at any auto parts place.Some cheaper some more expensive.
No spark,then the flywheel comes off and the points need cleaning/sanding.
Remember it sat for a while and you were lucky it fired at all.The old points,condenser should have been replaced a long time ago.J

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Yesterday evening, I took out the spark plug, and with it still connected to the cable cap, I cranked the engine. I was holding the cable cap somewhere by the cable near the cap, and was shocked with electricity. I though that wasn't supposed to happen. Needless to say I didn't get it to start.

Today, I went down again and tried squeezing on the spark plug cap, thinking that maybe there is poor contact between the spark plug and the cap. I put it on, and the engine fired. It ran for a few seconds and then stalled. Maybe I just had a poor connection then? I didn't play with it much more. I noticed though that the carb started getting flooded and gas was dripping out.

I must say though, I'm learning a lot and already helped a neighbor start his 60hp Johnson. Still need to solve the problem with my 3.5

The spark plugs are fine, I got a new one so that cannot be the problem anymore. I didn't measure out the correct 25:1 proportion of gas to oil when I first filled the tank, but I did put quite a bit of oil just in case. Could that possibly be part of the problem?

This is a very ancient motor and is probably the easiest outboard to learn on. Soon, we'll be running out of potential problems.

 

[economate2]

Re: Help diagnose problem with Chrysler Economate 3.5HP

Decided to take the carb apart again. Tried starting it this morning and it fired and ran a it until it seemed like it flooded and wouldn't start anymore. The carburetor was filling up with gas and dripping every time I pulled the lever down.

Here are a few pics.


The last one shows that butterfly valve that has the open, half-open, closed positions. I can't figure out which one I have to start it and which one I have to run it with.