Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

[GalacticWaterman]

I have a boat fever and am furiously shopping on a local Craigslist for a bowrider.
I've found these two.
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pml/boa/3557865940.html
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/3506384108.html
Can I please get some opinions on whether they are worthwhile purchase and whether the prices are ok or what should I offer for either boat?

It'll be my first boat. Mostly cruising, skiing, and fishing local coastal waters in our fairly sheltered area around Vancouver.
It'll be mostly two people in the boat and once in a while 4 or 5 but rarely.
I'm looking for 18-20' bowrider.
My budget is $5-10K but I also have to budget around 1K a year for storage, and the closer I spent to $10K the more serious debt I'll be in.
I'm not in a big hurry to buy right away but I do have the boat fever if you know what I mean
Also I don't mind driving couple hours to shop for a boat, like to Seattle etc, so if you see or know of something you can recommend, then that would be great too.
Any advice and opinions much appreciated.
Thanks

 

[tazrig]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

I have a boat fever and am furiously shopping on a local Craigslist for a bowrider.
I've found these two.
Larson 194 Lxi Bowrider Loaded - 250hp Bravo 3
1993 Crownline 18.5
Can I please get some opinions on whether they are worthwhile purchase and whether the prices are ok or what should I offer for either boat?

It'll be my first boat. Mostly cruising, skiing, and fishing local coastal waters in our fairly sheltered area around Vancouver.
It'll be mostly two people in the boat and once in a while 4 or 5 but rarely.
I'm looking for 18-20' bowrider.
My budget is $5-10K but I also have to budget around 1K a year for storage, and the closer I spent to $10K the more serious debt I'll be in.
I'm not in a big hurry to buy right away but I do have the boat fever if you know what I mean
Also I don't mind driving couple hours to shop for a boat, like to Seattle etc, so if you see or know of something you can recommend, then that would be great too.
Any advice and opinions much appreciated.
Thanks

Welcome aboard! Larson is a high end boat and most likely worth the extra $$$ as it has a V8 instead of a V6 in the other. It also has a Bravo drive which is the heavier duty drive of the 2 styles that Mercruiser makes. It is also a Bravo 3 which means 2 props that counter rotate and give you better handling both at low and high speed. All that being said since this is your first boat I can't stress strongly enough to spend a couple hundred dollars before you buy anything and have a competent marine surveyor go over the boat for you along with testing the engine for compression, (this tells you roughly how much life is left in the motor) idle etc. Since the buyer states that the boat was serviced so well by the same place he should be able to furnish you with a full set of service records to present to the surveyor. You want to be sure he had the engine and drive oil changed at least once a year at the end of the season and every 50 hours in between, had the water impeller changed every 2 years, rotator, distributer cap and plugs every year etc. Also you need to know the engine was properly winterized every year. You will need to budget another $1k/year minimum for maintinance unless you are going to do all the work your self. First find a boat you like that meets your needs, then sea trial it, (take it for a ride) agree on a price based on a satisfactory survey. Then and only then plunk down the money.

You can look here for some comparative pricing:

Used Boats for Sale -iboats.com

And here for a rough idea if the boat is priced in the ball park:

Power boat, Sailboat Prices & Personal Watercraft Values

There are lots of great deals out there so take your time, find what you like then shop what you like until you find THAT boat at the right price. It's important to get out there and actually look at the different boats. You'll soon start to see the differences both in quality (how well the boat was made by brand) and how well each boat was maintained. Although it's always better to buy a better built brand such as a Larson to start with, if it wasn't well maintained for 10 years it won't be worth as much as a lessor brand that has been well maintained.

Also keep in mind that the economy is bad right now and there are a lot of boats out on the market so offer less than you think the seller will take. The worst they can say is no. The $200 or so you'll spend to have the boat surveyed will be the best investment you will ever make. Trust me on this one. They know where and what to look for and if they find something bad they can give you an idea of how much it will cost to fix. Then it is up to you and the seller to haggle over who is going to pay for the fix. If the deal isn't right than just walk away. There are plenty of good used boats out there in your price range. Keep us posted on your progress and keep the questions and pictures coming!

 

[GalacticWaterman]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

Welcome aboard! Larson is a high end boat and most likely worth the extra $$$ as it has a V8 instead of a V6 in the other. It also has a Bravo drive which is the heavier duty drive of the 2 styles that Mercruiser makes. It is also a Bravo 3 which means 2 props that counter rotate and give you better handling both at low and high speed. All that being said since this is your first boat I can't stress strongly enough to spend a couple hundred dollars before you buy anything and have a competent marine surveyor go over the boat for you along with testing the engine for compression, (this tells you roughly how much life is left in the motor) idle etc. Since the buyer states that the boat was serviced so well by the same place he should be able to furnish you with a full set of service records to present to the surveyor. You want to be sure he had the engine and drive oil changed at least once a year at the end of the season and every 50 hours in between, had the water impeller changed every 2 years, rotator, distributer cap and plugs every year etc. Also you need to know the engine was properly winterized every year. You will need to budget another $1k/year minimum for maintinance unless you are going to do all the work your self. First find a boat you like that meets your needs, then sea trial it, (take it for a ride) agree on a price based on a satisfactory survey. Then and only then plunk down the money.

You can look here for some comparative pricing:

Used Boats for Sale -iboats.com

And here for a rough idea if the boat is priced in the ball park:

Power boat, Sailboat Prices & Personal Watercraft Values

There are lots of great deals out there so take your time, find what you like then shop what you like until you find THAT boat at the right price. It's important to get out there and actually look at the different boats. You'll soon start to see the differences both in quality (how well the boat was made by brand) and how well each boat was maintained. Although it's always better to buy a better built brand such as a Larson to start with, if it wasn't well maintained for 10 years it won't be worth as much as a lessor brand that has been well maintained.

Also keep in mind that the economy is bad right now and there are a lot of boats out on the market so offer less than you think the seller will take. The worst they can say is no. The $200 or so you'll spend to have the boat surveyed will be the best investment you will ever make. Trust me on this one. They know where and what to look for and if they find something bad they can give you an idea of how much it will cost to fix. Then it is up to you and the seller to haggle over who is going to pay for the fix. If the deal isn't right than just walk away. There are plenty of good used boats out there in your price range. Keep us posted on your progress and keep the questions and pictures coming!

Thanks Tazrig for the excellent advice.
I especially like the details about the engine and the drive.
I'm learning and don't mind when things get a bit technical (I'm a computer IT guy).
And I used to work on my cars and even enjoyed it sometimes (changing a heater core on a Taurus in November at a curb is not a lot of fun ).
So I plan on doing some of the maintenance myself.
I have to admit I do like that Larson with the big engine and it looks like it's quite well equipped with accessories too.
The price is just going slightly over my budget.
I'll try to get a marine surveyor but not sure if they're available for $200 around here. I'll have to make some phone calls and find out.
I'm going to look at the boat on Thursday and talk to the guy so I'll report back on my progress.
Thanks again for the post and your time.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

I would not call either of those boats high-end, they are decent brands. The bigger factor is their condition after 18-20 years of age.

I do like the Larson better than the Crownline, in terms of the power package, etc. check the prices with NADA or even BUCvalue. I'm not quite sure how the market is in your area, but boats of that size range tend to sell well in the Spring in preparation for the summer.

Your biggest issue may be structural rot, moisture, etc. So, check things out carefully. Do a little research here and on other forums about folks who have dealt with structural rot and repairs. You could get a surveyor to give the boat a full inspection, depending on your comfort level.

A sea trail will tell a lot about the boat's mechanical condition. Keep in mind that most engines run great with no load on them, so "driveway" tests are meaningless.

 

[agallant80]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

I don't know what the storage situation is where you live but where I live there are several storage places that you can keep the boat on the trailer for about $40/month.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

I believe 1995 was a year or two before Larson stopped using wood stringers and bulkheads in their boats, so pay very close attention to any soft spots in the floor. Any hints of problems up top probably mean bigger issues below....

Jim

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

Larson is a high end boat....

HA That's some funny stuff.

Larson is a fine brand and they make a fine boat...HIGH END???? NO WAY!!!

They are middle of the road on all accounts. When Genmar was still around they had Glastron, Larson and Four Winns all of which tried to fit in to the upper middle class of boats. Larson always seemed to be sandwiched between the "budget" friendly Glastron and the slightly higher end Four Winns.

Larson is not and really never was high end.

That all being said, of the two choices the Larson would be my pick also.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

I almost forgot, I'm pretty sure at that time Larson was using what they called the AmeriCore hull construction. This was pre VEC.

The AmeriCore construction utilized a foam core in the hull. The hull has 2 walls with foam in between. BE CAREFUL. If there was every any damage to the hull and it wasn't properly repaired it can be a big headache. I had a 1991 Larson that had met a dock a little too swiftly and got a small hole in the side. It was repaired but how it was repaired did not account for the fact that there was foam and a second fiberglass skin. Long story short water got between the 2 layer and the foam got saturated and a few freeze/thaw cycles later and the entire side of the hull was delaminated and not safe.

Look over the hull very carefully. I discoverd my issue when I was removing a decal and was pushing/pulling on the side of the hull and it was moving and I could hear water squishing around.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

My hull is a typical fiberglass layup; no core of any kind. It's a '97. If the OP could get the HIN, he could probably contact Larson by email and ask about the construction. They were able to find the original list of materials for mine when I inquired about the construction of the stringers. They responded in less than a day.

Jim

 

[tazrig]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

I almost forgot, I'm pretty sure at that time Larson was using what they called the AmeriCore hull construction. This was pre VEC.

The AmeriCore construction utilized a foam core in the hull. The hull has 2 walls with foam in between. BE CAREFUL. If there was every any damage to the hull and it wasn't properly repaired it can be a big headache. I had a 1991 Larson that had met a dock a little too swiftly and got a small hole in the side. It was repaired but how it was repaired did not account for the fact that there was foam and a second fiberglass skin. Long story short water got between the 2 layer and the foam got saturated and a few freeze/thaw cycles later and the entire side of the hull was delaminated and not safe.

Look over the hull very carefully. I discoverd my issue when I was removing a decal and was pushing/pulling on the side of the hull and it was moving and I could hear water squishing around.

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Larson being a high end boat. It doesn't rise to the level of a Formula but then again the new Formula's don't rise to level of the old ones. Very few things are made as well today as they used to be. As far as your hull problem goes you're saying you bought a boat that wasn't soundly repaired. Did you have a qualified marine surveyor check it out before you bought it? Probably not. Then you had problems with it, and yet you feel qualified to give advice to a newbie about what he should buy?? Really? The foam sandwiching technique has been employed by Boston Whaler for many years. Rather successfully I might add. Their bullet proof reputation is undeniable but I guess in your opinion they don't make a high end boat either?

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Larson being a high end boat.

Ha.

I'm wondering what evidence you have that they are high end. I'd also like to know what you define as high end. You mention Formula as being high end. I concur with that. What other brands do you put into the high end realm?

In my experience, many of the mainstream brands are all very similar in quality and construction techniques. There are little details that set some a little higher than others, but in general almost all boats built in the last 20 years or so from a major brand are "good" boats.

Many people have argued and discussed the merits of any given brand. The OP came looking for opinions on 2 boats.

My real experience with the REAL construction methods of a Larson is very pertinent to the question at hand. I didn't mention all the other very cheap aspects of the boat and didn't really need a life lesson on whether or not I should have hired a marine surveyor. I knowingly bought a cheap boat and dealt with the issues I encountered.

Foam core is typicaly seen as good. I agree with that, and everyone knows that Boston Whalers are foam cored. NOT everyone knows that Larson built boats with a foam core. The carpet covered plywood "floor", the poor drainage, plywood transom and plywood seat bases in the Larson I owned are all evidence that is was a cheaply built boat. Did I mention that the plywood floor wasn't even sealed with resin on the bottom side?

If the Larson in qustion is not built with a foam core, I'd actually think that is a good thing. They knew how to build a boat pretty well with traditional methods. Larson is and has been a good mainstream brand for years. They make a good boat and there should be no reason to shy away from any Larson if it proves out to be well maintained and in good condition.

 

[agallant80]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

Just keep in mind that the Bravo3 is going to way more expensive to fix than an Alpha 1. The prop for an Alpha will be something like $120 the Bravo3 will be $900-1200 for the prop set. When I am looking at anything mechanical I go on to ebay/auto parts websites and look at what the parts cost that way I can get an idea of what the TCO will be. Look and see how much props, fuel pumps etc are for each boat and factor in how that will affect your boating. If you can't afford to replace a $1000 prop set but can afford to replace a $100 prop than that may be a factor in the decision. I did not know much about Bravo3 drives when I bought my boat after watching many youtube videos on servicing them, taking them apart etc I have a better idea. I also know now that having the Bravo if something major goes wrong (hit something crack the lower housing and bend the props) I will be calling my insurance compan, it would be a $3,500 repair bill where on the alpha I could fix it myself for about $500.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

It'll be my first boat. Mostly cruising, skiing, and fishing local coastal waters in our fairly sheltered area around Vancouver.

Sorry for soiling your otherwise good thread with the OT Larson talk.

I'll try to make up for it.

You mention crusing on coastal waters. I wonder if you have a strong opinion one way or another on the drive system on the boat. Typically an outboard is seen as more suitable to saltwater use than an i/o. For a trailer kept boat used for day cruises and stuff, it may not matter all that much which you chose, I just wonder if you have considered an outboard.

A boat like this would probably be easier to learn with, be cheaper to maintain and perform nearly as well as the Larson with the V8 and B3 drive. With the old carb'd 2-stroke it would use more gas, but the price is good enough to make up for a lot of extra fuel.

boat

 

[GalacticWaterman]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

I almost forgot, I'm pretty sure at that time Larson was using what they called the AmeriCore hull construction. This was pre VEC.

The AmeriCore construction utilized a foam core in the hull. The hull has 2 walls with foam in between. BE CAREFUL. If there was every any damage to the hull and it wasn't properly repaired it can be a big headache. I had a 1991 Larson that had met a dock a little too swiftly and got a small hole in the side. It was repaired but how it was repaired did not account for the fact that there was foam and a second fiberglass skin. Long story short water got between the 2 layer and the foam got saturated and a few freeze/thaw cycles later and the entire side of the hull was delaminated and not safe.

Look over the hull very carefully. I discoverd my issue when I was removing a decal and was pushing/pulling on the side of the hull and it was moving and I could hear water squishing around.

Ouch, now I'm scared!
Thanks for the info.

 

[GalacticWaterman]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

Thank guys for all the great info.
I didn't realize that the maintenance and cost of the parts for the Bravo 3 is so much more complicated and expensive.
So I supposed I should be looking for Merc 4.3 with Alpha1 then or even just a 3.0L engine I see in many 18' boats.
I can see hitting rocks or something else with the propeller and would hate to be out for the season because I will not be able to afford $3.5K repair cost as I'll still be paying off the boat for the rest of this year.
I am also rethinking boats that old and maybe look for something newer and a bit smaller like an 18' which are cheaper.

 

[BonairII]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

Your biggest concern regarding a FB boat IMO is.......ROT. If you're paying good money for a used boat....having a marine survey done on it is probably the way to go.

 

[GalacticWaterman]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

Sorry for soiling your otherwise good thread with the OT Larson talk.

I'll try to make up for it.

You mention crusing on coastal waters. I wonder if you have a strong opinion one way or another on the drive system on the boat. Typically an outboard is seen as more suitable to saltwater use than an i/o. For a trailer kept boat used for day cruises and stuff, it may not matter all that much which you chose, I just wonder if you have considered an outboard.

A boat like this would probably be easier to learn with, be cheaper to maintain and perform nearly as well as the Larson with the V8 and B3 drive. With the old carb'd 2-stroke it would use more gas, but the price is good enough to make up for a lot of extra fuel.

boat

No problem RotaryRacer, I've been on the Internet since it's beginning so I know how it is on the forums (and BBSs before forums) and how discussions get heated.

As for the outboard question, here is my "feeling" on it.
I don't like outboards because I find them loud, "crowding" the aft of the boat, and most importantly I'm concerned that it'll get stolen as I'll be storing the boat outside and quite likely renting someones backyard or driveway space and my understanding is that an outboard is fairly easy to take off the boat whereas i/o is not.
Each one of those 3 above reasons is a deal breaker for me when it comes to outboards.

 

[GalacticWaterman]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

Ok, I've looked at a few other adds.
Would one of these be better choice for a beginner on a budget like me than the old Larson?
2004 18'Larson BowRider
Fourwinns 180 Bowrider

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[GalacticWaterman]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

My hull is a typical fiberglass layup; no core of any kind. It's a '97. If the OP could get the HIN, he could probably contact Larson by email and ask about the construction. They were able to find the original list of materials for mine when I inquired about the construction of the stringers. They responded in less than a day.

Jim

I'm going to see that old Larson on Thursday anyway since I'm going to that area and it'll be good to talk to the guy and get a bit of experience at shopping for a boat.
I'll get the HIN (do we have those here in Canada?) and call Larson and try to get info about the hull construction from them.
One thing is for sure, if plywood or foam is involved anywhere in the hull then I'm staying away from that boat.

Thanks for the help

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Help deciding on bowrider purchase from craigslist

The HIN should be stamped in the transom at the rear of the boat on the right side.

Don't rule out the boat if they say it has foam... in '97 (or so) Larson started manufacturing boats with foam-filled engineered stringers and bulkheads cast out of fiberglass. These structural members under the decking are vastly superior to wood stringers because the fiberglass stringers never rot. Even boats with the engineered stringers have plywood transom shields; I don't know if or when Larson stopped using plywood in the transom.

Foam can be used in a boat in lots of ways, not all of it is bad... all boats in the size range you cite, for example, will have floatation foam under the deck. It's required for manufacturers to install it on boats less than 21', I believe.

I think foam you were warned about earlier was a foam-cored hull, where the hull panels are formed with foam coated with fiberglass.

When you're looking at the boat, pay extra attention to any soft spots in the deck and look over every inch of the transom that you can, especially near the bottom or around any thru-hull holes (bolts, outdrive keyhole, etc.).


Good luck,
Jim