Health insurance.

[rolmops]

As I was reading about the medicaid /medicare budget cuts,I got to thinking about my own health care.<br />Heaven thanks,me and my family are completely covered so in a way I am a spectator and as such inclined to think that everybody should get as much as I get.<br />Health care in the USA is a private business and a very profitable one at that.Health care in Canada and Europe is a state run affair which costs about 66% less than it does here,but the average maximum age of people is three to five years higher and child birth mortality in the USA is higher than that in Europe.<br />Why are we getting less,but pay much more?Why do many cities in the northern states start their own drug riders and order all their drugs from Canada thereby saving over fifty percent in drug cost?<br />Another interesting thing is that health care provided by companies is one of the reasons why the USA manifacturers have a hard time competing in the open market.In Canada production is a lot cheaper because the companies do not have to pay for their employees health care.Yet at the same time there are no uninsured workers.<br />Clearly there are pros and cons.<br />What is your educated opinion about these problems?<br />Oops I forgot,I am one of those dangerous left wing liberals so don't bother accusing me of that fact,I know it already.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Health insurance.

Originally posted by rolmops:<br />Why are we getting less,but pay much more?

This is why:<br /><br />

Originally posted by rolmops:<br />Health care in the USA is a private business and a very profitable one at that.

It's a private business, so they can charge as much as they want. Just like gas, health care companies know we have no choice but to buy their services no matter how much they charge. Hospitals and doctors charge more because they know the patient usually never pays for it. Actually people without insurance usually pay higher prices than the insurance company does to doctors.<br /><br />I saw something on the news just the other day about some new corrective eye surgery. They have a machine that does it in under an hour. It costs $5,000 per eye! What possible reason could their be to charge that much, other than because they can? I can hire a tow truck for a few hours for a couple hundred bucks. This includes the use of a very expensive machine (the truck) and a skilled operator's time. Why is a doctor's time worth 25 times more money? Simply because he can charge it...

 

[Link]

Re: Health insurance.

I can only address one part of this. <br />Just because its free and avalible to you.<br />Doesn't mean your going to get it in time to save your life.<br /><br />IE: Two of my friends in the last ten years went in for a check up. Both were told they needed triple bypass surgey.<br />Both never left the hospital. They were operated on that night or the next morning.<br /><br />Another friend who lives in Canada was told the same thing. But was put on a waiting list 5 weeks out or more. <br />I don't know exactly how she did it but she crossed the border and paid to have it done here.<br /><br />Like you said, pros and cons to each side.<br /><br />Hope you have heavy armor on with this post <br /><br />btw interesting timing on this, I'm scheduled in 2 hours for the same test. If I dont make another post in say 5 hours I wont be back for a few days.<br /><br />Seems I have a HAPPY Heart! It skips to it's own tune!

 

[rolmops]

Re: Health insurance.

Originally posted by ZmOz:<br /><br /><br />I saw something on the news just the other day about some new corrective eye surgery. They have a machine that does it in under an hour. It costs $5,000 per eye! What possible reason could their be to charge that much, other than because they can? I can hire a tow truck for a few hours for a couple hundred bucks. This includes the use of a very expensive machine (the truck) and a skilled operator's time. Why is a doctor's time worth 25 times more money? Simply because he can charge it...

It is not right to compare these things.A trained eye surgeon has at least 10 years of specialized studies to perform an operation where your eyes are at risk.There also is supply and demand.Obviously the supply of truck drivers is a bit larger than that of eye surgeons.That is why the eye surgeon gets paid a bit more.<br />Link,I hope you will be healthy and live to be 120 years old.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Health insurance.

Originally posted by rolmops:<br />It is not right to compare these things.A trained eye surgeon has at least 10 years of specialized studies to perform an operation where your eyes are at risk.There also is supply and demand.Obviously the supply of truck drivers is a bit larger than that of eye surgeons.That is why the eye surgeon gets paid a bit more.

Doctors certainly should make more money than alot of other people; however, I don't think there is a single person alive who's time is worth over $5,000 an hour.<br /><br />My dad was recently in the hospital for about 2 weeks. They never figured out what was wrong, he was just really sick. They just gave him some pain medicine and watched him for a couple weeks. The bill was over $70,000! What could they have possibly done that was actually worth that?

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: Health insurance.

I hope he at least got a really good sponge bath out of the deal.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Health insurance.

ZmOz,are you implying that health care cost should be regulated?

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Health insurance.

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> ZmOz,are you implying that health care cost should be regulated?

I'm implying that they are highly, highly overpriced simply because nobody has any other option but to pay. Yes I do think something should be done about it...what exactly I don't know.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Health insurance.

Many people choose to go to South Africa,Egypt or Israel.In each of these countries there are extremely good hospitals staffed by either American or British trained personel.The prices are about a third or less of what is paid here. You can go for treatment, take a 2 week cruise on a luxury liner and come back with money in your pocket.

 

[JB]

Re: Health insurance.

Hmmmm. A couple of thoughts, ZmOz.<br /><br />All three of my daughters and all three of their partners are health care pros.<br /><br />Want to know why health care is priced so high and going higher?<br /><br />1. Malpractice litigation and the cost of insurance against it.<br /><br />2. Government regulations.<br /><br />3. Tuition.<br /><br />4. The cost of treating charity cases who have no way to pay.<br /><br />There is more, of course, but those four are major contributors.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Health insurance.

JB, you forgot the single biggest reason for high healthcare costs. It's called 3rd party payer. Americans are becoming so used to entitlements that they have the attitude that it does not matter what it costs because 'my insurance' is paying for it and 'someone' else is paying for my insurance.<br /><br />This is why a shift to Medical Savings accounts would have a huge and immediate impact on the cost of medical care. All forms of costs, including malpractice litigation would plummet. Government regs would have to bend to the reality as well.<br /><br />Only when patients start paying the bills will there be any relief. You can't blame it all on the insurance companies.<br /><br />'scuseme, I got a sniffle, I got to call the Clinic.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Health insurance.

Better get that sniffle checked out, boom. Could be the flu.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Health insurance.

Originally posted by Dunaruna:<br /> Better get that sniffle checked out, boom. Could be the flu.

Nothing that a little Australian summer wouldn't cure Aldo. <br /><br />Actually I think it is a touch of Dengue Fever brought on by this blasted tropical deluge that we are experiencing.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Health insurance.

Originally posted by rolmops:<br />

Originally posted by ZmOz:<br /><br /><br />I saw something on the news just the other day about some new corrective eye surgery. They have a machine that does it in under an hour. It costs $5,000 per eye! What possible reason could their be to charge that much, other than because they can? I can hire a tow truck for a few hours for a couple hundred bucks. This includes the use of a very expensive machine (the truck) and a skilled operator's time. Why is a doctor's time worth 25 times more money? Simply because he can charge it...

It is not right to compare these things.A trained eye surgeon has at least 10 years of specialized studies to perform an operation where your eyes are at risk.There also is supply and demand.Obviously the supply of truck drivers is a bit larger than that of eye surgeons.That is why the eye surgeon gets paid a bit more.<br />Link,I hope you will be healthy and live to be 120 years old. [/QB]

Careful rolmops, with critical thinking like that, you may turn into a conservative capitalist yet.

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: Health insurance.

In regards to the tow truck VS the eye machine. I'm just going to guess that the eye machine costs 5 to 10 times what a tow truck costs. I'm also going to guess that malpractice insurance is several times the cost for the doctor than liability insurance for the tow truck operator. I would also bet that the eye machine will be obsolete long before the tow truck is ready for replacement and I will bet there is a larger market for used tow trucks than used eye machines. I have absolutley no facts to back any of this up.....just my opinion on it.

 

[PW2]

Re: Health insurance.

Canada's system definitely has problems with it. No question about it.<br /><br />I personally am against first dollar coverage. You need some incentive for not overusing the system, or using the ER as an extension of the doctor's office... I bet if Canada only covered 50 % until $1000 out of pocket expense was reached, they could reduce their costs dramatically and improve their system.<br /><br />What is needed in this country is catastrophic coverage of some sort. Or insurance denial due to pre-existing conditions. Coverage for every hangnail or stubbed toe is not necessary or desirable.

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: Health insurance.

PW2, I agree completely. I'm self employed, so my heath care plan was chosen by me. It has fairly high deductibles, but it is affordable. I'm covered against losing everything if (God forbid) I need cancer treatment or a triple bypass, but on the other hand, doctor visits have a high co-pay....I don't go to the doctor everytime I have the sniffles.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Health insurance.

I guess I might as well get into the fray with this little bit about the new Medicare drug plan.<br /><br />Been checking it for a out neighbor and it seems that if you get ninety days supply of a drug one would think that it would be cheaper but on most plans that I looked at the are just three times what a person would pay for a thirty day supply.<br /><br /> I presently take a gout pill everyday and get it from my Blue Cross insurance plan they negotiate and get a very good break.<br /><br /> It seems that the government would have more leverage than blue cross.

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Health insurance.

JB, that's a good list, but add one more. <br /><br />5. Abuse of the system.<br /><br />Patients utilizing emergency services and ER's for things they should either see their GP for or handle themselves. A good example: When I worked ground ambulance, we wouldn't turn on the lights or siren going into certain neighborhoods because as soon at the residents there saw you, they would decide they wanted a warm meal and a nice bed for a night, and call too for some rediculous thing.

 

[Link]

Re: Health insurance.

Thanks rolmops<br /><br />JB<br />Would like to add on to your post also.<br />Sometimes its helps to understand things if you can put a real name or place on something.<br /><br />It ain't all peaches and cream on the other side either.<br /><br />My FIL (RIP)was a highly respected (by peers) orthopedic surgeon. When you needed one of the best, he was the go to guy.<br /><br />Now you can look up what the average private practice OPS pay per year is, it looks huge. <br />Well it is huge.<br /><br />However by the late 70's he was only bringing in money wise that of a everyday MD (Medical Doctor)in private practise. Witch Doctors I call em! <br /><br />The rest of the money was all going to, and to quote JB<br /><br />Malpractice litigation and the cost of insurance against it. And he had never been sued once!<br /><br />In 78 his income dropped from the year before because insurance. <br /><br />This was the sad part.<br />Here was a guy at the top of his field doing what he loved to do. And better than most.<br />And he had to give it up.<br /><br />So he quit putting in the 60-80 hours a week.<br />Cut his hours to 20, maybe on a busy week 30<br />and became a regular MD.<br /><br />His living income did not change a bit.<br />But he hated it.<br /><br />The world lost a great surgeon and a surgeon lost his life a few years later because he gave up on life.<br /><br />On the other hand in Canada one of the reasons (in my other post) that my friend was put on a waiting list is for the same reasons, Money.<br /><br />She told me that Doctors up there have a salary cap. And they wised up quickly.. I can work 12 months a year and make X number of dollars.<br />Or I can work 6 months a year and make the same ammount! So it creats a shortage of Doctors and waiting lists.<br /><br />This is just hear say from some friends up there.<br />I'm not trying to present this as facts for Canada.<br /><br />Also you could have added Mexico rolmops.<br />Right after 911 I paid $15000 to get some dental work done quickly to go back into the Military.<br />(I didn't know then about other health problems that prevented me)<br />I could have it done for under $4000 by retired American dentists living there. <br /><br />btw shouldn't we be way off topic and bashing rolmops for something! <br />Man your getting off easy dude!