HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

[kimchee]

I have received a ton of help on my last obstacle which was hydrolocking followed with replacing manifolds...<br /><br />However, I have been having a problem with my boat ever since I have owned it, and have had multiple causes suggested on this forum to which to date, I can safely say none are the case...<br /><br />Basically, when I goto start my boat, it starts up VERY NICELY, I mean literally with the turn of the key... But, once I get out into the ocean, and let it run for a good 30-45 minutes, then shut it down... It is almost impossible to start back up again...<br /><br />What I do, to get it to work again is, I spray carb cleaner all over the carb, and let it sit awhile, then eventually, it start up with some SERIOUS EFFORT... To the point that the batteries are almost dead..<br /><br />So far I have replaced plugs, complete manifolds&risers, fuel water separator filter, and 5 different oil changes... At first many on this forum suggested that it was VAPOR LOCKING.<br />However, as I grew more mechanically savvy... I started to examine more closely, and the last time I went out, I examined the carb, by looking down the barrels, and as my wife pushed on the throttle, I saw gas misting into the carb... Therefore, I would assume it is NOT VAPOR LOCKING. <br /><br />When I hydrolocked, I thought OHHH!! This maybe the reason it was hard to start when I was in the ocean, thinking water may have leaked into the cylinders, making it hard to start... But, now that I have changed the mani/risers, it is not that either....<br /><br />My marina mechanic thinks that some sort of "float" in the carbuerator is getting stuck, and thus when I stop the engine in the water after running it, the carb. continues to mist/leak gas into the engine, causing a "flooded" effect... This has been the most probable cause that the marina mechanic has been able to come up with... He says that this is a common problem these days, due to the conversion of fuel (w/ethanol). SO, he says, next time this happens try to hold the throttle WIDE OPEN, and try to start the engine... If it starts up more easily, then this is the problem...<br /><br />The reason it didn't make too much sense is because, if you hold open the throttle all the way, aren't you essentially flooding the engine MORE??? eventhough you are letting more air... Besides, even if this temporary fix did work, how do I fix it permanantly? without having to have the carb. rebuilt???<br /><br />Thanks Everyone...

 

[kimchee]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

Oh yeah... I forgot to mention...<br />His rational for the boat being able to start easily when it is cold, is because whatever fuel that leaked into the carb, during the previous ride has essentially evaporated, and therefore I don't get that "flooded" effect... Everytime I pull my plugs, that are BLACK !!!<br />Maybe there is a idle or fuel adjustment I can try??? What do you guys/gals think???

 

[trebor0301]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

I think if I was having these problems in a small lake it would be one thing,but in the OCEAN.Your crazy to run the ocean with starting problems that you know will happen all the time.I think you should take your boat in to get fixed.If you do it soon maybe you will get away with NOT having to replace that poor starter of yours.If your going to give it another try then at least try to run with your engine compartmet open(for cooling)and see if you still have a problem.Also when getting ready to shut down let idle for a few minutes first.

 

[olbuddyjack]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

if you hold open the throttle all the way, aren't you essentially flooding the engine MORE??? eventhough you are letting more air...

No. The throttle only controls the air going into the engine, the carb controls the fuel. When you crank with the throttle wide open you allow a full air charge to the cylinders but since the cranking rpm is low it doesn't create enough air flow through the carb to bring the fuel with it. Yes some fuel is squirted in from the accelerator pump but it stops when the throttle movement stops.<br /><br />It works, trust me , just be ready to bring the throttle back when it starts so you don't over rev the engine!

 

[olbuddyjack]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

Everytime I pull my plugs, that are BLACK !!!<br />

Big clue. Two most common things that cause that are short runs that don't let the engine warm up or a rich mixture.<br /><br />Flooding will blacken your plugs but if your running right they should burn fairly clean after a while.<br /><br />Adjusting the idle or idle mixture would only matter if you idled all the time. When you run, anything over say 1000 rpm, your running in the main metering circuit and your idle mixture matters little.<br /><br />Is your choke opening? Beside that most of the reasons for the black plugs lie within the carb. Looks like you might have to spring for that rebuild after all. <br /><br />Like trebor said get a professional to look at it to be sure.<br /><br />Who said "Bust Out Another Thousand?"

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

olbuddyjack has hit the nail right on the head.......Rebuild or replace your carb. and the problem will go away.....JK

 

[elpaso]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

I agree with everything your mechanic told you,<br />And wide open is how to start a flooded engine.<br />Rebuild the carb, and problem is over.

 

[magster65]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

If it were me I'd;<br />Check the choke adjustment first. <br />Then I'd check for flooding.<br />Then I'd check the starter draw wire.<br />Then I'd swap the coil and condensor (I've seen them get weak when they're hot).

 

[bolo789]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

having the same problem all year, i rebuilt the carb same darn thing. so i just put the shifter all the way, start every time i ges i might put a new starter next season .<br /><br /><br />i also change plugs and wires cap fuel pump engine water pump, same thing, only thing left is the sensor in the distributor and the iginition module, but as the guys above said put the trottle all the way and ready to pull it back as soon as it catch. good luck, iwill be following what you come up with.

 

[Richard Petersen]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

You never did say if holding the throttle wide open helped. Must have. Flooding carb. when hot. Good mechanic.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

How about we start with what the hey we are talking about, like boat, motor, carb type, point or Elec Ing.........(we know on the shiny new manifolds!)

 

[Bondo]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

Besides, even if this temporary fix did work, how do I fix it permanantly? without having to have the carb. rebuilt??? Everytime I pull my plugs, that are BLACK !!!

I'm Sorry,.....<br />But,...the way I read it,.....<br /><br />Rebuilding the Carb. is Where I'd Start trying to Fix it..............

 

[craze1cars]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

Not having the faintest clue what kind of engine you're running, we can only guess. But what you describe is quite common today on carburated engines with the new fuels. It's sometimes flooding when you shut it down hot. Welcome back to the wonderful world of carbs.<br /><br />So based on having no information, I can only offer 3 suggestions, which I admit mostly echo what others have already said:<br /><br />1. Rebuild the carb. It might help, might not...after all you still will be running new formulations of fuel in an obsolete fuel system, so some imperfections are to be expected. The fact that your plugs are black also points to getting too much fuel.<br /><br />2. Learn to hold the throttle wide open when you have to crank it hot, it'll likely fire right up and smell slightly like gas behind the boat after it fires and the raw fuel comes out of the exhaust. If you notice this odor, then you have confirmed what your problem is. AND the boat will start quite easily. You just need to go back in time and remember how everyone used to start their flooded cars back in the 60's or early 70's...they floored it while cranking, followed by a roar, a black puff of smoke, and the wonderful smell of fuel shooting outta the glass paks.<br /><br />3. Buy a new fuel injected boat and be done with it all.

 

[trog100]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

i think the problem here is modern car engines literally do start with the turn of a key.. some folks expect their boat engines to work the same way..<br /><br />carbed boat engines dont start with just the turn of a key.. and neither did carbed car engines..<br /><br />if an engine is slightly flooded or just a little rich at idle.. with the throttle left at idle it will never start. just get more and more over-rich the more u turn it over.. open the throttle wide turn it over for a few seconds and it will clear the flooded condition and fire up..<br /><br />u dont even need a carb for an engine to fire up.. just pour some neat petrol into the intake.. spin it over for a few seconds with the throttle wide open and it will burst into life..<br /><br />basically at slow starter motor cranking speeds with the throttle wide open there isnt enough draw on the carb jets to pull fuel thru.. so however rich u start the mixture weakens off as the engine spins over till the point when a combusable ratio is reached and the engine will burst into life..<br /><br />do this with the throttle closed and the opposite happens.. the mixture just gets richer and richer and the engine will really get "flooded"..<br /><br />most folks seem to have the idea that not enough gas is what causes difficult starts.. when cold possibly but when hot its usually the other way around and the engine dont need to be flooded.. just that the gas air ratio is outside combustable limits.. repeatably turning the engine over with the throttle closed is what "floods" it..<br /><br />trog

 

[kimchee]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

Just wanted to say that there are many on this forum which actually suggested carbuerated engines, and as silly as it may sound... I found there logic sensible... In learning more about my boat (as this is my first season owning a boat) I have found that although sometimes complicated, my engine is somewhat managable... Which may not have been the case had it been a fuel injected engine... Might sound silly, but I am sure there is a little logic in there somewhere...<br /><br />As far as the carb... looks like I will rebuild it... My marina mechanic says $250 labor and parts included... Can't really go wrong, I guess... But in Brooklyn, NY we are going into the winter months, so I intend to rebuild it next season...<br /><br />Oh.. By the way it is a:<br />5.7L small block mercruiser I/O thunderbolt V engine. 4bbl. Carbuerated. V8. On a 1996 maxum 2300 SC.<br /><br />Thanks Everyone...

 

[craze1cars]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

For about $900ish you could slap a Holley TBI fuel injection system on it....<br /><br />Just thinking out loud here. Enjoy yer boat!

 

[Richard Petersen]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

Fuel injected engines do flood in the winter and they will NOT start if floored and cranked like a carb. You have to remove the fuse for the fuel pump, then crank it floored until is fires and runs out of fuel. Put the fuse back in and it should do a normal cold start.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

Originally posted by cyclops2:<br /> Fuel injected engines do flood in the winter and they will NOT start if floored and cranked like a carb. You have to remove the fuse for the fuel pump, then crank it floored until is fires and runs out of fuel. Put the fuse back in and it should do a normal cold start.

True they can flood, but not true that you need to go through all that fuel pump fuse hassle.<br /><br />Pressing and holding the accellerator of most cars to the floor in a fuel injected car while cranking bypasses the fuel pump to allow starting a flooded fuel injected car. Multiple turns on and off of the ignition key is what causes the problem for most people...each time that key is turned from off to on the fuel pump is cycled briefly. But if you don't turn the key all the way to "off" between cranks and leave your foot down, the fuel pump will not operate so the cylinders can purge. I'm not sure how the EFI boats are set up, however.

 

[bolo789]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

this problem is hard to solve, seems no one can find the cure, its like aids, come on guys find the problem for hot starting now,lol, good luck man i will be following this treg hope you find the fix

 

[bolo789]

Re: HARD TO START after running for a while ---> NOT VAPOR LOCK....

if you are in brooklyn take your carb to a carb place on beverly rd between utica ave and e 49 street tell him ian send you, i bet you you will save some major bucks. and a carb is not hard to install, i have my boat at bayend marinea, [ 718 495 0888 carb guy number]<br /><br />good luck