hard landing or crash landing ?

[nwcove]

we had an incident early sunday morning at our provincial airport. an air canada passenger jet ran into trouble while trying to land in blizzard conditions. the airline is calling it a "hard landing", the passengers ( all survived, no seriousinjury) are calling it a " crash landing"........any opinions?

 

[aspeck]

Looks like a VERY hard landing to me ... :faint2:

 

[GA_Boater]

I guess since no one died it's a "hard" landing. I believe by definition a landing is on the runway. This was a thousand feet short in what the Canadian TSB is calling a "collision with the ground". Isn't collision a synonym for crash? All that will buff out before the bird flies again.

 

[64osby]

I saw that on the news and heard some interviews on the radio. Clipped a power line from coming in to low from what I heard.

Looks to be a war a words. Maybe trying to save the airline some reputation.

Any landing is a good landing.

 

[southkogs]

... Any landing is a good landing.

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing ... any landing the plane can taxi away from is an excellent landing.

The FAA - awkwardly - doesn't have a definition for a Crash Landing. There are types of emergency landings and a crash. So, Osby's definition would actually probably work here in the States. Not sure what y'all do North of the border.

Regardless ... there was a run on underwear at the local department store. WOW.

 

[rbh]

+2 on "Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing"

Yup took out the power line, but if its missing the landing gear I bet it took out a pole as well, and it took out a small antenna array tower as well I guess thats when the other landing gear went.

 

[gm280]

Well even if the plane was undamaged, I'm sure they would have to steam clean the passenger area a few times... That would completely stop me from ever flying again. Wonder how many deals were made with God during all this?

 

[64osby]

That would completely stop me from ever flying again.

My Dad was on a twin turbo prop plane that sucked in a goose on the runway and then a second one after lift off. They crashed in a cornfield. Everyone lived, one pilot broke his neck the other his nose. All but the pilot walked away (he did live)

The next morning he flew out on the same type plane with the same flight number. He said the odds were that he would never have to worry about being on another plane that crashed.

 

[bruceb58]

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing

That's a Chuck Yeager quote and most pilots probably don't agree with him.

 

[Jeep Man]

To be nearly 1000 ft. short in a modern plane at an international airport, even though it was blizzard conditions, I'm suspecting it was hit by a severe downdraft. The investigation will tell the story. But to answer your question, if I was on board, I'd be calling it a crash... with a little bit of miracle mixed in.

 

[southkogs]

That's a Chuck Yeager quote and most pilots probably don't agree with him.

... Betcha' there's more passengers that disagree with him than pilots

 

[dwco5051]

My Dad was on a twin turbo prop plane that sucked in a goose on the runway and then a second one after lift off. They crashed in a cornfield. Everyone lived, one pilot broke his neck the other his nose. All but the pilot walked away (he did live)

The next morning he flew out on the same type plane with the same flight number. He said the odds were that he would never have to worry about being on another plane that crashed.

That sounds like the logic my BIL used when he did a lot of sport fishing in Alaska and NW Canada. He said he always picked a bush pilot that had crashed in the two or three previous weeks. What is the chance that he is going to crash twice in a month?

 

[southkogs]

Was trying to unscramble the news reports a little - 30kt winds that day and I'm guessing they were pushing from the NW or W. That makes the choice of Runway 05 kinda' an interesting approach. From what I understand the A320 can take a decent crosswind, but ain't real friendly to tail winds.

Had plenty of runway on 05 to land long though ...

 

[MTboatguy]

I guess it all comes down to perspective, crash or hard, neither one is fun

 

[southkogs]

Losta' variables. Generally speaking ATC, Pilots and Weather Crews all have a goal of fun, safe and effective flying ... no tellin' what really happened.

 

[gm280]

Reminds me one time flying into Cedar Rapids and we were flying in a huge blizzard lighting storm with 60mph cross winds. I know it was 60 mph because the little plane I was on the pilot came on the intercom and told everybody we were going to land with 60mph cross winds so everybody was suppose to click their seatbelts on. The flight attendant asked "did he say 60mph" I said yes. She quickly strapped in her attendant seat and you could hear a pin drop in that plane. Total white out looking out the plane windows and every direction you can imagine the plane was flopping around. I honestly don't know how the pilot managed to get us on the ground, but we did and safely as well... As I went to rent a car, the girl at the car rental was talking and said "you should have been here about 10 minutes ago, we had a blizzard lighting storm hit us". I said "yes I know, I was on the plane coming through it". She looks perplexed and didn't even make the connection... Imagine!

 

[aspeck]

On one of my Ghana trips I was driving down the motorway during a very severe storm. Visibility was maybe 20 feet, it was raining so hard. I heard a loud noise (the airport was about 300 yards to my left). Shortly afterwards I heard sirens. A plane came in low and crashed between me and the runway! There were 58 people on board, I believe and one fatality. I was kind of surprised when the pilot was given a medal and a hero's welcome for crashing the plane! There was nothing wrong with the plane, he just missed the runway in the heavy downpour, bot only one person died, so give him a medal! :facepalm:

 

[four winns 214]

A hard landing requires a logbook write-up and maintenance inspection. Most hard landings damage only the pilot's ego, although occasionally there are exceptions. What's being discussed in the original post is not a hard landing. It is an aircraft accident. If Air Canada termed it a hard landing, they're being disingenuous at best.

 

[DaNinja]

I investigated many "hard landings" which completely totaled the aircraft. We were told strictly not to call it a "crash"
"Crash" is a term that makes the press. A "hard landing" even if the aircraft is a total loss, does not make the press and reflect negatively on the command in the press.

The pictures in the OP is a crash in my book, but hard landing for those in charge.

 

[four winns 214]

Not sure where you investigated the hard landings, but at my operation the term "crash" doesn't exist. The terms we use are the same as used by the NTSB- "Incident" and "Accident"- and the criteria for determining the difference between is the same.