Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

[DRDow]

Hello everyone,

This fall I purchased a 1969 Seaflite SS177 with a '73 Merc 1500 outboard. I am currently preparing a rewire and update of the electrical system. Currently its a mess and doesn't have enough circuits for how I'll be using it (primarily fishing, secondarily tubing for the wife and kids).

I have done quite a bit of research regarding proper wire sizes and methods of connection and have a good grasp of those standards. However when it comes to color coding of the wires there seems to be quite a bit of ambiguity in much of the available information which is leading to some confusion for me.

My first question is, at what point should the wire change color to coincide with the color codes? For example, the main source power, which is 12V fused to the block should be red. Should the 12V pos wire which leads from the fuse block to the switch for the Nav lights also be red, or should it be grey? Is it only grey from the switch to the lights? How about on an unswitched circuit such as an accessory outlet like a cigarette lighter, would this wire remain red until it terminates at the outlet?

Most of the color charts I have read state "Red: Unprotected Power" or "Red: Positive Main (particularly unfused)" which indicates to me that it is unfused and that any wire from the fuse block should be color coded to identify the circuit. However i did read somewhere that unswitched wires should be red as well and it appears in many of the diagrams and photo's I've seen, there is liberal use of red wiring from the fuse block.

As I am preparing to order the wire, its difficult to know how much to order without knowing how much I will be needing. Thank you for your input and also have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Dan

 

[jhebert]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

Should the 12V pos wire which leads from the fuse block to the switch for the Nav lights also be red, or should it be [gray]?

Typically the secondary power distribution for the positive side will be RED, as this is still part of the power distribution. The circuit from the control element, the switch or circuit breaker, to the load being controlled takes the color associated with the circuit. For navigation lamps, GRAY is typical. If you have some really custom wire colors, the return or negative circuit would be BLACK with GRAY STRIPE.

...on an unswitched circuit such as an accessory outlet like a cigarette lighter, would this wire [i.e., the positive circuit] remain red until it terminates at the outlet?

Yes.

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

This should help some.

 

[DRDow]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

jhebert,

Thank you for your reply.

To make sure I understand fully, a fuse or fuse block is not considered a "power control element" but is part of the distribution system. So, the POS+ wiring from the distribution/fuse block should remain red until it reaches either a switch, circuit breaker, or terminates at the load device, correct? Negative return wires, if possible, should have a stripe which matches the color of the circuit for which it completes?

Thanks again,

Dan

 

[DRDow]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

MH Hawker,

Thank you also for your reply. Those diagrams match almost exactly to what I have drawn out although I had planned on wiring each of the switches on separate fuses. Seems wasteful now. Also I had planned on using the Blue Sea 6011 battery switch to keep the boat circuit isolated from the outboard's circuit. Maybe later on down the road I would add an ACR but since my stator only puts out 9 amps max i figure almost all charging would have to take place at home. Any advice or things to watch out for?

Thanks again,

Dan

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

Personally I like a fuse per circuit, When I did mine I used a fused switch panel, that made it simpler. That way if some thing goes bad it dosnt take ever thing out.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

jhebert,

Thank you for your reply.

To make sure I understand fully, a fuse or fuse block is not considered a "power control element" but is part of the distribution system. So, the POS+ wiring from the distribution/fuse block should remain red until it reaches either a switch, circuit breaker, or terminates at the load device, correct? Negative return wires, if possible, should have a stripe which matches the color of the circuit for which it completes?

Thanks again,

Dan

That's correct in a perfect world. Wiring looms are normally made off site by manufactures that have equipment to color code the wires thus its doesn't add much to the cost of production. For one off looms and upgrading there are a host of other ways to identify the wiring. The most common is numbering. If you can afford custom colors in short length's then its a great idea but don't blow your budget when a simple slide on pvc number or a printed label under clear heat shrink will do.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

To make sure I understand fully, a fuse or fuse block is not considered a "power control element" but is part of the distribution system. So, the POS+ wiring from the distribution/fuse block should remain red until it reaches either a switch, circuit breaker, or terminates at the load device, correct? Negative return wires, if possible, should have a stripe which matches the color of the circuit for which it completes?

Thanks again,

Dan

Power to a fuse is part of the power distribution circuit. Power from the fuse to its load is part of the load circuit. The load circuit would be appropriate to identify with a conductor of a special color insulation. For example, if you ran power to an automatic pump from a fuse, the wire from the fuse to the automatic pump could be identified with the appropriate insulation color. For a pump, that would be BROWN insulation.

For a reference for wire color insulation, I use the list I compiled myself from many sources. See

Classic Whaler: Boston Whaler: Reference: Wire Color Code

A good source for information about boat electrical wiring is the recommendations of the American Boat and Yacht Council, ABYC. They do not publish all of their recommendations on the web for free distribution. The wire color codes I have listed are based on those used by a manufacturer who is believed to be following ABYC recommendations.

In the table I show, there are listing for negative or return circuit wire color coding. Typically it is difficult to buy wire in small quantities that has insulation colors with stripes.

I guess in your earlier question about wire from a fuse to a cigar lighter socket, you could use RED with VIOLET stripe, a color designation for "Miscellaneous Accessory". The VIOLET stripe indicates that this source of 12-Volt power is protected by a fuse.

But I wouldn't lose too much sleep about it. It is going to be hard to buy any wire with insulation colors having stripes unless you buy a lot of wire, say a 1,000-foot reel of it. You might find some boutique seller, but the choices are probably limited. As a general rule, wire sold to consumers typically does not come with striped color insulation. That is usually an OEM item.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

This fall I purchased a 1969 Seaflite SS177 with a '73 Merc 1500 outboard...

That outboard engine is now 40-years old. Be very careful with the wiring under the cowling of that engine. It is probably decaying and becoming very brittle. Due to the heat from the engine the insulation has probably become very dry. If you start to disturb or move those wires, you may find that the insulation will begin to just fall off the conductors. Be cautious.

 

[DRDow]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

Hi Glenn,

You've made some good points. Fortunately I have found a source locally for Ancor tinned marine wire who sells by the foot which will really help to keep costs down. Unfortunately like you stated, its not a perfect world and they don't carry all of the striped wire I would need to do it per spec, but if I use solid black for the grounds I should be OK. Since I'm just doing this at home I'll have to make some compromises. Since there are only 7 or 8 circuits and they are quite short, the wire will be relatively inexpensive. The terminals on the other hand...$$$.

I like your idea about the numbering tags. I have been searching for the pvc clips and can only find them in large quantities which would be quite expensive. Are you aware offhand of a source for these which would carry them in smaller quantities or maybe a small kit with all of the numbers? These tags would allow me to use some wire my neighbor offered which he was allowed to bring home from work after finishing a project. His company contracts for NASA building parts for satellites and this is a very high quality wire to meet their specs (tinned multistrand, designed for extreme temperatures, and must be reliable as its very expensive to repair if it fails). That wire would be free and it is the right size for most circuits, but its all the same colors, Red and Black twisted pair. While I don't really love the idea of using it, it is another option, especially if this project were to get too expensive. So far I'm well within budget though.

Thanks again,

Dan

 

[DRDow]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

MH Hawker,

I like the idea of not losing everything on a circuit to a single blown fuse. I think what I may do since I have 12 fuses on the fuse/distribution block is run separate 12v + feeds from the panel to each switch and that way I can continue to use the existing switch panel and still have separate protected circuits. That would also still leave me with 4 or 5 empty circuits to add on to in the future if I choose. Since the distance from the fuse block is relatively short, I would only be looking at about 36 inches of wire per circuit for both feed and ground, about $2.00 in costs which is not a big deal. Thanks again for your ideas.

Dan

 

[DRDow]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

Power to a fuse is part of the power distribution circuit. Power from the fuse to its load is part of the load circuit. The load circuit would be appropriate to identify with a conductor of a special color insulation. For example, if you ran power to an automatic pump from a fuse, the wire from the fuse to the automatic pump could be identified with the appropriate insulation color. For a pump, that would be BROWN insulation.

Ok, so what I have planned is power from the battery to the battery kill switch, then to a 60 amp main fuse. From the fuse I will run 8 awg wire for 13 ft to the Blue Sea 5026 ST fuse block/bus. I assume everything up to this point should be red as it is the main power distribution regardless of being fused. Every circuit from here is fused at the Blue Sea fuse block. So should everything from the block be the appropriate color for the load? I assume an exception would be if I were to run a singe +12V wire from the block to a fuse/switch panel which fed several other circuits ( I believe that this would be secondary distribution and would be red still, albeit a smaller gauge wire, at least in my circumstance).

Classic Whaler: Boston Whaler: Reference: Wire Color Code[/url]

Thank You for this. Bookmarked!

Typically it is difficult to buy wire in small quantities that has insulation colors with stripes.

I am coming to this realization as I search for striped wire. There is A source that I have found for many of the colors of striped wire however the quality of such wire is questionable at least to me. They say their wire is "tinned corrosion resistant boat electrical wiring" but do not supply any manufacturer information, or respond to inquiries about their product.

But I wouldn't lose too much sleep about it. It is going to be hard to buy any wire with insulation colors having stripes unless you buy a lot of wire, say a 1,000-foot reel of it. You might find some boutique seller, but the choices are probably limited. As a general rule, wire sold to consumers typically does not come with striped color insulation. That is usually an OEM item.

Since I have heard this from two of you now its becoming a theme. I guess I should listen to it! I'll do the best I can to be correct but I'll have to make some compromises obviously. Since there aren't many circuits I think it shouldn't be too confusing. Also as long as I provide a wiring diagram if I decide to sell it or "let" someone else work on it, they should be okay. I'll probably print one up and have it laminated.

Thanks again,

Dan

 

[DRDow]

Re: Happy Thanksgiving, and some wiring questions.

That outboard engine is now 40-years old. Be very careful with the wiring under the cowling of that engine. It is probably decaying and becoming very brittle. Due to the heat from the engine the insulation has probably become very dry. If you start to disturb or move those wires, you may find that the insulation will begin to just fall off the conductors. Be cautious.

Yep, This is what started it all. The wiring harness for the engine is shot as well as some of the wiring in the Mercontrol box. Fortunately iboats sells the correct engine harness and I can manage rewiring the Mercontrol. I thought I could do the engine too but cannot locate the proper harness connector.

Thanks

Dan