grounding out ingition

[fixmyevinrude]

1988 Evinrude 150 XP

I plan to time my motor using Joe Reeves WOT method. I plan to use 12 inch jumper wires with14 gauge stranded copper wire and an alligator clip attached to each end. I will remove the 6 spark plugs and plug wires completely. I then will attach the jumper wires directly to 5 of the 6 cylinder coils and an engine ground. Then I want to rig a spark tester to the number 1 cylinder and proceed with the timing operation. I just want to make sure that I wont be damaging any componets with the method I mentioned above. In paticular the jumper wire set up I plan to use. Thanks for any feedback or ideas.

 

[willamettejeff]

I've used Joe Reeves WOT method several times on different motors. No need to ground out anything or for jumper wires. Only involved removing the spark plugs, putting a timing light on the number one cylinder spark wire, and, for convenience when doing solo, using a remote starter switch hooked up on the starter solenoid between the battery and yellow/red wire connections. Then either turn on the ignition key or disconnect the black/yellow wire at the power pack. Haven't needed to have a spark tester on the #1 cylinder to have the timing light work, but might be a good idea.

Note: Be sure to follow the procedure to adjust the timing pointer before trying to set the timing. All timing settings depend on this being correct first.

 

[Faztbullet]

The only reason to ground them is to prevent you from getting shocked and possibly igniting a fuel/air charge exiting cylinder. If you don't it wont harm ignition...

 

[fixmyevinrude]

Thank you for the responses. Maybe I am misunderstanding something. I am under the impression that if you are cranking the motor over and the plugs are out or the spark plugs wires are off you could damage the ignition system if you don't ground them out or disable the ignition system. Since I need the number 1 cylinder live in order to time the engine and the spark plug are all out I figured I should ground 2 thru 5 to the engine and have a spark tester on cylinder number 1 along with my inductive timing light lead. Am I on the right track or am I missing something. Thank you

 

[schematic]

I am under the impression that if you are cranking the motor over and the plugs are out or the spark plugs wires are off you could damage the ignition system if you don't ground them out or disable the ignition system.

You are correct. An open plug wire can damage the coil. Do exactly as you posted for checking the timing.

 

[Faztbullet]

Sorry to disagree but it wont hurt the ignition...think about it as the coil has to build up to a point it can jump the spark gap on the plug under compression. If this was true a bad/damaged/fouled plug not firing would damage the system also. This is one of those internet rumors that someone posted as a fact....

 

[schematic]

Sorry Faztbullet but its not a rumor....
Coil voltage is governed by the plug gap, mixture, and cylinder turbulance. This limits the operating voltage to approx. 4 - 10k volts.
The coil can produce in excess of 35k volts when in an open circuit situation. The coil insulation is not capable of insulating this high voltage for long. It will find a ground internally or externally and cause a carbon trace on its path.
Also, if there are any near by conductor that are connected in any way to the pack, there is a high likelihood that the pack will be damaged.

Trust me...

 

[fixmyevinrude]

Guess I could also use a multi cylinder spark tester like the CDI one I see on their website and set the gap for all cylinders on the tester to 7/16. I am thinking of building one. Probably would be the best way. I appreciate all the info from everyone. Thank you. Any other views or ideas appreciated.

 

[Faztbullet]

I have been doing this since the early 70's and it was/has never been taught in factory schools, mentioned or printed in a manual or taught at the CDI/AMTECH ignition school that this will damage ignition components. Yes what you stated if done over a long period of time will cause damage but not just checking/troubleshooting a system. A single coil such as on some cycles and early auto are more susceptible to this than a outboard coil in a ADI system as the lag time in next spark cycle. In all the dealerships I help in my area none of the tech's have seen any ignition parts damaged by not grounding leads. I have never grounded them and never had aignition problem.....well I take that back ,I set my T2X on fire once cause plugs was out.

 

[boobie]

The spark tester is a good idea.

 

[schematic]

Sorry to disagree but it wont hurt the ignition...think about it as the coil has to build up to a point it can jump the spark gap on the plug under compression. If this was true a bad/damaged/fouled plug not firing would damage the system also. This is one of those internet rumors that someone posted as a fact....

a bad/damaged/fouled plug would cause a short to ground....not an open as we are referring to...
The golden rule in any high voltage ignition is never to run "open circuit" for fear of the high voltage seeking ground through an undesireable path.
Been working with this 45 years......why would I lie?

If still in doubt....phone Clarke at CDI. He can enlighten you.

http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IS-119-2400.pdf

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ignition_coils.htm

http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/understanding_multi-coil_ignition_systems.asp

http://www.linnbenton.edu/auto/perform/ignition.htm

http://www.mkiiitech.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-925.html

 

[Faztbullet]

Been working with this 45 years......why would I lie?

Got ya beat by a couple of years....didnt say ya was lying?

If still in doubt....phone Clarke at CDI. He can enlighten you.

I talked to Clark quite a few times and he's not the brightest bulb in the light string...he blames every problem on the stator. I knew Ray the owner when Rapair first started business as we would carry them barrels of cores so they could rebuild them(still owes me$$$). That's the first CDI pdf I have seen with this stated but it may be because of design,as it a wasted spark dual coil/module combo. I have heard of this on the automotive side but never have or seen this on a outboard ignition system.I might just dig out the old Mer-o-tronic and see if it still works and see how long it takes to make a coil fail, might make a good tou tube video
http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/114-7778.pdf
http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/IS-183-2508.pdf
http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IS-113-4028.pdf
http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IS-185-2370.pdf
http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/IS-117-688-15.pdf

 

[sutor623]

I talked to Clark quite a few times and he's not the brightest bulb in the light string...he blames every problem on the stator.

Hahahaha, ain't that the truth. Ill tell ya what though, that guy really does know his ignition systems!!!