Grabby surge brakes?

[amirm]

New to trailering.... Have a new EZ Loader trailer with surge disc brakes pulling 7200 pound boat. If I stop with any force, when I get moving again, the brakes seem to be holding strong, requiring some force to disengage with jolt (and some screeching). Making matters worse, the throttle on my two vehicle is "non-linear" making slow starts rather difficult.<br /><br />Asked a mechanic today and he said it was normal for new surge brakes to act this way. He said it gets better with age. Is this right?<br /><br />I find that very gentle braking helps but I can't always do this...<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Amir

 

[milkyway]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

What is your tow vehicle? And how long have you been trailering?

 

[milkyway]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

One thing about surgebrakes is that the brake system, specifically the coupler, uses the stopping motion of the tow vehicle to activate the surge brakes. The trailer's couple has to push against the ball for it to work. So when you brake on the tow vehicle, the trailers brakes are always engaged. What I do is, after the full stop, I release my tow car's brakes for just a moment so that the car's ball will pull away from the coupler and release the trailer's brakes. That's how it works.<br /><br />Now check and double, triple check the adjustment of the brake pads. Go to championtrailers.com and learn about brakes.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Grease seals or wheel cylinders may have been leaking at one time or another which contaminates the brake shoes (or pads) causing them to stick. The only fix is replacement.

 

[amirm]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Thanks for all the comments.<br /><br />Milkeyway, as I mentioned, we are very new to trailering (as in, just got one three weeks ago ). We downsized from a much larger boat that was permanently in the water so I am still learning here. <br /><br />The tow vehicle is a Land Rover LR3 rated at 7700 pounds for towing with low range gearing. It seems to handle the monster in the back fairly well. And yes, the weight I posted is fully loaded (darn builder had the boat spec'ed at "4800" pounds!).<br /><br />Your trick of letting it slide forward when stopping is a great one. I was letting the car roll before getting moving again but your system seems better.<br /><br />Upinsmoke, this is a new trailer so hopefully it doesn't need that kind of repair. I do hear an odd sound though once the brakes release. For a few secnds, there is a rather regular squeeky sound and then it goes away. It kind of sounds like one of the disc brakes is not letting go initially or something like it. It doesn't always do this though. Should I worry?<br /><br />Thanks again,<br />Amir

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Brand new hydraulic disc brakes should not bind or grab - period. If a mechanic told you otherwise...... .<br /><br />It's a new trailer, yeah? So it has NEW calipers/rotors/pads/brake lines/master cylinder/surge coupler. Nothing in that senario should be tight or binding - it should all be very free flowing when the brakes are applied. Nor should trailer disc brakes lock up the tyre (unless you stop from 60 MPH to zero in a nanosecond). It's possible they have fitted a DRUM mastercylinder instead a DISC cyl.<br /><br />Take the damn thing back to them and demand a functional trailer. IMO.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[milkyway]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

There are hundreds of sound and noise you will hear. Troubled me a lot in the beginning and couldn't tell one from the other. The squeeky sound can be coming from your hard-working land rover which is pulling a really big rig. Maybe not the brakes. Or maybe your winch cable is not too tight, also the stern cables not too tight, your boat maybe shifting. Do you have a strap on the bow eye going to the trailer? Your bow could be bouncing. You;ll learn more as you go.

 

[tommays]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

my first guess would be to high of a tongue weight causeing the master cylinder to bind and not apply and release smoothly<br /><br />after that it comes down to what type of brakes drums out of adjustment will travel to far and require a lot more master cylinder travel<br /><br />and not being self adjusting they do require more care<br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[rwidman]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

There may be a grease fitting on the coupler and it may need grease. Or, take it back to the dealer and have them fix it.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Are they discs or drums??

 

[amirm]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Thanks for the continuing replies. It is pretty educational.<br /><br />As to the type, they are definitely disc brakes. I have not measured the tongue weight so I will have to check that.<br /><br />The sound is coming from the trailer wheels (it has a definite rhythm to it while it lasts). And I am confident it is not coming from the Land Rover. Note that I only hear this sound occasionally.<br /><br />The wheels are not locking up either. It almost sounds like the brake shoes not disengaging fully on one tire. At least this is what it sounds like.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the boat deal is 100 miles north so I hate to lung it up there for inspection.<br /><br />Thanks again,<br />Amir

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Originally posted by amir:<br /> If I stop with any force, when I get moving again, the brakes seem to be holding strong, requiring some force to disengage with jolt (and some screeching).

Sorry, I took the 'screeching' to mean that the tyres were locking up.<br /><br />You've got pads, not shoes, BTW.<br /><br />The seal inside the caliper is responsible for PULLING the piston back and away from the pads, either pressure is not being released (blockage, faulty master cylinder, binding surge coupler) or the piston is partially siezed.<br /><br />A brand new caliper will acctually release away from the disc much quicker than a worn caliper - if it's not releasing quickly, you have a problem somewhere. <br /><br />You said the trailer is new. How 'new'? Was it sitting around in the boat yard for a couple of years maybe?<br /><br />Aldo

 

[amirm]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Thanks Aldo. The trailer came new and I am pretty sure it has not sit around. It is an EZ Loader unit with LED lights and other features that are new for 2005. I got it with my new boat which was finished being built a couple of weeks ago.<br /><br />I contacted the boat builder and they told me that there is an ez loader nortwest branch right in the town we live in! So I am going to have them take a look since it is under warranty.<br /><br />Thanks a bunch everyone. I learned a lot and appreciate all the information and education.<br /><br />Will report back on what I find out from ez loader....<br /><br />Amir

 

[amirm]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

As promised, here is the update and resolution to the problem.<br /><br />The EZ loader NW division folks were kind enough to put their production of new trailers on hold for a couple of hours to troubleshoot this problem. I had no less than 6 people trying to figure out what was going on.<br /><br />Their first guess that tongue load was too high proved not be the case (600 pounds on a 7200 pound trailer). After testing everything on the trailer from bearings to brakes, they did a level check. Turned out the back was 6 inches higher than front. Now mind you, the trailer visually looked level as it is hard to see such a difference across such a long load (the boat alone is 23 feet). The thought here was that if the trailer is not level, the surge mechanism is not going to be able to travel easily which makes sense.<br /><br />While they did not think this would make a difference, they lubricated the surge mechanism and replace some kind of roller (unfortunately, I didn't see them to do this so the description here may not be 100% percise). Surprisingly, the lubrication made a huge difference. There was some jerking but I would say about 80% of the problem had gone away.<br /><br />The above did not quite last though in that by the time I drove home (only 11 miles in traffic), the brakes had already started to grab more and more. So I went ahead and special ordered the 10,000 pound ball mount that was about 2.25 inches higher than the current one. I installed the new mount yesterday and it definitely took care of the problem. There is still the last 20% grabbiness here, but the rest is gone. According to EZ Loader, the larger surge mechanism used on these trailers just doesn't work as smoothly as the smaller ones.<br /><br />I also got a bonus with the new mount. Namely, the overall handling of the car and trailer has improved tremendously. The ride was not bad before but I could easily feel the trailer in the back and steering was quite sensitive. Now the tow SUV seems to have strong command of the load in the back and the only time I notice the beast is on bumps and sudden ups and downs on the road. The brakes are also nicely proportionally instead of all or nothing. Milkeway’s suggestion of slow rolling takes care of most of the residual grabbiness.<br /><br />Thanks again for all the suggestions. Learned a lot here and know better than to tow something without actually measuring level.<br /><br />Amir

 

[thiede]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Originally posted by milkyway:<br /> One thing about surgebrakes is that the brake system, specifically the coupler, uses the stopping motion of the tow vehicle to activate the surge brakes. The trailer's couple has to push against the ball for it to work. So when you brake on the tow vehicle, the trailers brakes are always engaged. What I do is, after the full stop, I release my tow car's brakes for just a moment so that the car's ball will pull away from the coupler and release the trailer's brakes. That's how it works.<br /><br />Now check and double, triple check the adjustment of the brake pads. Go to championtrailers.com and learn about brakes.

 

[thiede]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Thanks to Milkyway for the post about surge brakes and to Champion for the technical stuff. This site is awesome!!!

 

[jlinder]

Re: Grabby surge brakes?

Thanks for the update on the problem solution being related to the trailer being level. I have noticed a slight similar problem and never thought of the question of it being level.<br /><br />Also, thanks to comments above I will double check my tongue weight.