Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

lenkrauss

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Attempting to change gear oil on Nissan 3.5B, was unable to get oil to flow from bottom to upper plug hole. Seemed like some kind of obstruction was between the upper and lower holes. The tried pumping oil into top hole and it didn't run out of bottom hole either. Turned motor completely upside down and tried pumping in oil from bottom and still no flow between the holes. I've changed lower unit oil on this engine before and many others and have never seen anything like this. The specs call for just 6 oz of oil. This engine has been running fine, so this was to be just routine maintenance.<br /><br />Any ideas or suggestions about this apparent blockage would be appreciated.
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

I have never heard of this happening on any outboard.
 

lenkrauss

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

Took my 3.5B to small O/B mechanic. He said he's seen this before. He said: The blockage is caused by softening/melting of the upper drive shaft oil seal due to excessive heat. The seal, which is just inside upper plug hole, more or less "melts" onto the bearing below causing an obstruction. There are apparently either two seals or a two-lip seal -- the upper is cooled by raw water, the lower by gear oil. The lower seal and bearing have very little clearance to begin with, so it doesn't take much to cause a blockage. The heat factor on the seal can result from low oil level and salt build-up, as the pump is just above it.<br /><br />Questions: (1) Does this explanation make sense? (2) What is the extent of disassembly required to replace the two seals? Must the drive shaft be removed?<br /><br />Thanks.
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

1) No.<br /><br />2) Yes.<br /><br />I've never heard of a seal melting causing a blockage like that. Neither has Nissan. It doesn't mean that you couldn't have some sort of material in the gearcase preventing you from getting the gear oil in(maybe a melted seal :rolleyes: ) Try sticking a wire in or blowing air, but you should have seen a lot of debris come out when you drained the gear oil to begin with if that was the problem.
 

lenkrauss

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

Thanks Elvin. There was no debris in the drained gear oil and no sign of water contamination either.<br /><br />The mechanic eventually filled the gear case by using a pressurized oil container. There was a slight bit of an air hissing sound at first which sounded to me like there was a significant obstruction up high. Under quite a bit of pressure, the cavity filled after a couple hours.<br /><br />Is it true that, when filling from bottom plug hole, the oil must pass through the upper bearing to appear at the upper plug hole???
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

Supposedly, but did some guy really sit there for a couple of hours holding a nozzle while he injected oil? That's even more bizzare than the actual problem itself.
 

lenkrauss

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

No. After screwing in the fitting on the end of the tubing attached to container to the lower unit threaded plug hole, he pressurized the container. He then did other jobs and came back to check on progress every half-hour, and add pressure to the container as needed. As I previously commented, he said he's seen this before, and told me ahead of time that it could take a couple hours -- and it did. He only charged me for 1/2 hour labor.<br /><br />As you don't buy the melted seal closing off the passages through the bearing, what's your theory?
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

I don't really have one. :) I spoke with Tohatsu earlier today about your case and they were stumped as well. As a once in a lifetime event...Anything, including the melted seal theory, could be the cause. What bothers me is your tech saying that he has run into this before. I haven't run into it and neither has anyone else that I know of...Except for a lowerunit just filled up with debris. Another thing that seems a little weird is how the tech is refilling the gearcase under pressure. We use a tank that looks a lot like a pressure sprayer to refill a gearcase. It has a squeeze handle and does not have a provision to lock the handle down to continually fill a lowerunit. You could easily adapt it to do it, but they don't come that way. At least not any that I have ever seen. It just seems odd that he has experience with a condition that must be so rare. Also, you haven't mentioned that he repaired the engine...Just that he refilled it for you. That one really bothers me. Frankly, I don't know of a Nissan or Tohatsu dealer who would let one of their mechanics do that. The liability involved in ignoring a problem is just not worth the few dollars they would make from refilling it. This whole problem, it's cause and the solution just seems wrong. I'm sure you have related everything accurately, but are you sure your tech isn't just stringing you along?
 

lenkrauss

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

The container he used looked something like a garden sprayer -- maybe 1-2 gallon capacity -- and as I have one (for my garden) I definitely know it is pumped up and holds pressure. Its pump handle does lock down to hold pressure. And, of course, I watched him perform the procedure.<br /><br />The drained oil BTW was black, and the mechanic noted this saying it was indicative of excessive heat. I must make a confession here, that I'd not changed the oil in 4-5 years, and maybe it wasn't topped off. I only put about 20 hours a year on the motor, so I mistakenly thought I could get away with it, and had other things to worry about in my life.<br /><br />When the mechanic said he'd seen it before, it might have been just once before. He commented that he too was puzzled about the cause the first time, until he untook some detective work.<br /><br />He was willing to undertake the repair, but said it might not be justified because of the potential labor time (due to corrosion) involved in disassembly of a 1998 lower unit that had never been taken apart, age of engine and cost to replace with new one. Since there was no water contamination, he predicted I'd get another season out of it. Mind you, this engine was performing quite well and this whole thing arose when I finally decided to do overdue maintenance.<br /><br />I do trust the mechanic because he's a business partner of a very good friend. The engine is now operational, but I think I messed up the carb with gunk when I turned the engine upside down, so it's been a little hard starting at times.<br /><br />BTW, just today ordered workshop manual and carb kit from your firm. <br /><br />I see your firm sells a complete gasket/seal kit for the lower unit. If I decide to try replace the seals myself, what tips can you provide on things to watch for? Or should I not attempt it? I'm a pretty good amateur mechanic.
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

It's not hard to change out the seals on that model and you wouldn't need any special tools. I'm glad you trust the tech. It's just a real freaky problem with a freaky cause and an odd way to fill a lower unit. :) Usually when you hear a story like it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. In your case....your exception proves the rule.
 

lenkrauss

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts and checking with Tohatsu on this.<br /><br />As far as disassembly of lower unit, what worries me is getting corroded components apart, especially removal of the prop shaft carrier from the housing. Any tricks or techniques you could pass along would be appreciated.
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

Not really. It may look corroded, but unless you had the outer o-ring on the carrier fail(never happens on this brand), it should come right apart. Once you pull out the two bolts gently tap the carrier sideways and then gently tap it out of the housing.
 

lenkrauss

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Re: Gear Oil Blockage Problem - Nissan 3.5B

Thanks. Does the following kit have the upper seals everything else needed for the job? Lower Unit Gasket Set For Nissan/Tohatsu, 2-stk 3.5 B Model,#LUGS3F0873210M
 
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