Gas vs. Diesel

[ARCWINSTON]

I know if I were to ask 100 guys what was the best tow vehicle I would probably get 101 different answers.
If possible I would like to get some feed back from those who have switched from gas to diesel or diesel to gas in the last year or so and if you feel you made the right decision.
I currently have a '97 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 and am considering a new vehicle. I get a consistant 13 to 14 mpg towing my 19' Alumacraft at 60 to 70 mph. I would like to think that such a light load (about 3500lbs) would put me at the top end of the mileage range of a diesel but I am unsure. Is it the case perhaps that the benefits of diesels only really can be seen when pulling heavy loads?
Would the extra initial cost of the diesel, the higher maintenance costs and the slightly higher cost per gallon be offset by better mileage? Does the extra torque of the diesel make for a "better towing experience"?
Comments please. Thanks...W

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

One can compare the diesel with a gas engine towing your boat like pounding in a tack with a sledge hammer. You simply don't need that much power. You would have to put on a ton of miles towing to make up the cost differential between the gas and diesel trucks. Diesel fuel is also a fair bit more expensive than gas right now (at least in this area). Does the diesel do a better job of towing? Certainly. 550 - 600 ft pounds of torque will pull better than 350 ft pounds. If you put a gazillion miles on your tow vehicle or if you are a commercial operator, go with the diesel. Otherwise, gas is the only choice from a purely financial aspect. Resale may be easier (not necessarily as high) as well as the diesel will have a limited market (contractors, etc.). Figure the difference in fuel costs for the two vehicles over 100,000 miles. Add to that the difference in the cost and maintenance of the vehicles and I think you will find in your case this is not a wise choice. If you plan to buy a bigger boat down the road, it makes a little more sense.

 

[bucky7680]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I agree with Silvertip. I have a F350 powerstroke that I use to pull my various trailers ranging from2500 lbs to 15000lbs. Diesel is the only way to go for pulling heavy loads here in the west where we have steep grades. I don't think you would even feel your boat behind a diesel. Another thing about diesels is maintenence. Diesels require more costly oil, in my case 31/2 gallons oil and gas filters cost more than there gas counter parts also. I love my diesel but unless you are going to pull heavy loads you don't need one. IMO

 

[SwampNut]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I had a 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 with the 5.9l gas motor. A year ago we traded that for a 2005 Ram 2500 with the diesel motor.

Summary: I would kill you if you tried to take it.

The difference is phenomenal when it comes time to tow anything. I can't tell you enough great things about towing with this compared to the other truck. We've just hit 27k miles (in 13 months) and about 8k of that was towing a 28' cruiser. We towed it from FL to AZ in one trip, and all over the Southwest. It's like it's hardly there. The truck still accelerates better than some cars on the freeway ramps, and handles great.

The other huge improvement is fuel economy.

And finally, the unloaded speed is fantastic. Hemi? Haha, that's for little boys.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Good point -- but the poster is towing 3500 pounds, not a 28 ft cruiser. He simply does not need a 2500 series truck nor does he need the diesel. If money is no object -- go for it! Why not go all the way and buy an International Pickup (whatever they called that monster). Just curious - what mileage do you get with no load? Everybody talks about fuel economy but nobody ever mentions exactly what they get. I get responses like I can drive two weeks on a tank or I can go from hear to there on half a tank. Hardly a useful measure.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I was going to run some numbers using data from the Dodge web site but since they don't list fuel economy for the diesel, that won't happen. Wonder why that is!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

They aren't required to post fuel economy numbers on 3/4T and above.

 

[SwampNut]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

He simply does not need a 2500 series truck nor does he need the diesel.

That's what I thought when I bought the 1500. I wasn't towing that then, and I told myself it was too much truck and I should buy a smaller more sensible truck. I was wrong. Truth is, the diesel just makes much more sense all around. I wish I had just bought that to start with.

They don't list fuel economy for diesels because they are in a different class of vehicle that is not EPA rated. You can find lots of real-world numbers from users though. Also it varies greatly by where and how you drive it. I get 18-20 MPG in typical driving but I drive with my foot to the floor most of the time. If I set the cruise at 65 or so, it will do about 24 MPG. While towing my boat and doing mostly 75-85 it gives me 11-12, and more if I slow down.

In comparison, my previous gas truck gave me 12-13 running light in the same kind of use, same locations.

The diesel also has lower operating costs and maintenance, with higher resale value.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Lower operating costs? I doubt it. Insurance is higher, fuel is higher, tires are higher, oil changes cost more, filters cost more, brakes cost more and God help you if anything breaks out of warranty. And up here in the tundra where temperatures can get to 30 below zero, make sure you have properly blended fuel and anti-gel additive is essential. Fill up in Missouri on unblended fuel and hit Minnesota with that fuel and you will be dead on the side of the road unless you have a good fuel system heater. Did I mention the "bother factor" like the smell from diesel fuel (burned or not). Resale is debatable. I just ran some numbers based on your 24 MPG (which I can only take you at your word) vs the 18 MPG published for the 5.7L gas. In 100,000 miles you'll go through 4167 gallons of diesel fuel. Published internet prices today in Minnesota indicate $2.48/gal for a fuel cost of $10,334.16. I haven't checked the local stations sign for diesel today but that seems to be a relatively accurate number. The gas truck will require 5555 gal of fuel over the same miles. Regular gas is $2.07 as of last evening so that amounts to $11,498.85. The difference is $1164.69 in fuel costs favoring the diesel. However, the published prices for a 1500 SLT vs a 2500 SLT is in the range of $4000 and I didn't check the 3500 but one can assume that's another $4000 or so. Add the diesel engine option for (I don't know how much) and the economy of operation discussion begins to fall apart. Again, unless you routinely tow a heavy load, are a contractor or commercial operator, or simply have deep pockets, the average boater simply does not need one. It does not make economic sense. If its a "pleasure" factor, by all means make yourself happy. And one last thought, because you can tow a 28 foot boat at 75-85 MPH doesn't make it safe.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

If a half ton does what you need in a pickup, then that's the way to go. When you get into 3/4 and 1 tons with big block engines towing heavy loads, then the dilemma begins. Diesels make great tow rigs and with an exhaust brake, down hills with a load are no problem.
I'll probably buy another Diesel, but I'm sure I won't be able to justify the added additional cost with numbers in fuel savings.

 

[tommays]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Around here the truck would Rust away long before you got your money out of the Diesel


And a lot of the roach coach owners around here went Diesel 3 years ago there going BACK to gas ASAP as the diesel matiance costs with there stop and go driveing were really high


Tommays

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Here's some numbers silver. My 05 F350 superduty FX4 6.0 liter automatic w/4:10 rear axle. around 13 mpg empty and 10-11 mpg towing 14000 lbs. The 3:73 gear does a lot better from what I hear, about 17 mpg empty but drops dramatically under a load. My fishing buddy has an 04 Duramax 3/4 ton 3.73 axle that gets 20 mpg empty on the hwy but drops to 11mpg hwy 70-75mph towing his 24 ft camper.

 

[SwampNut]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Insurance is higher, fuel is higher, tires are higher, oil changes cost more, filters cost more, brakes cost more and God help you if anything breaks out of warranty.

Sorry about your frozen tundra, that's why I wouldn't live there. Insurance is not higher for us, I'm sure it varies by driver and location. Fuel varies, sometimes more, sometimes less. When I can get some veggie oil to run in it that's about $1/gallon. If I buy the commercial biodiesel it's always about the same as gas, I don't know why. Oil changes cost more, but filters cost the same, and the oil change interval is much longer than a gas truck. It ends up taking about the same amount of oil for a given time period but fewer filters and less labor. Tires cost more to buy but give better mileage, the net effect being par. Brake pads cost the same (within $5), don't know what else you might be comparing.

There are no tuneups or anything else to do until 100k miles.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Maintenance items are a small piece of the overall cost of ownership pie. The initial purchase difference between a 1500 gas and a 2500 diesel cannot be made up solely by savings in fuel economy and certainly not if one considers the 3500. I feel we are drifting from the original posters intent so I'm done here. My only point here is if towing/hauling demands are large and frequent -- do the diesel. If not -- a 1500 gas will do ya and you'll be money ahead for a down payment on a new boat.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

We have one of each (for business), F150, F250 diesel, and F350 4x4 gas (and RP's doing way better than I do at 11mpg). Silvertip is dead on. Don't buy the diesel unless a) you have lot of towing to do or b) you just like diesels. The 250 really can pull and is amazing on the highway, but for 3500#? You would be just as happy with the performance of either so save the money.

 

[SwampNut]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

I wasn't happy with the performance of the gas truck. Everybody is different of course and has a different opinion.

Another important consideration is that when it came time to consider buying the bigger boat, there was no issue with the towing capacity...

 

[boatingnva]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Having had both for lots of years, as long as I have anything of significance to tow, I will never go back to a gasser truck. I currently have a 04.5 GMC 2500HD 4x4 with the Duramax/Allison (3.73 gears), crewcab, long bed. The truck is used to pull a 16' alum gooseneck horse trailer, wtih 2 horses, total weight around 8Klbs. I also use it to pull my 99 bayliner 2050, around 3500lbs. Granted, this truck is way too much truck if I only pulled the boat, or if I traveled short distances to put it in, or will never upgrade to a larger boat. If these scenarios fit the original poster, then you may be better off with a gasser. I learned a long time ago, with respect to towing, having too much power is much better than not having enough. It is easier on the equipment, and less stressful on the driver. The ride that mine affords me whilel towing either outfits, makes it a pleasure to tow. BTW, empty mine gets close to 22mpg on the hwy, and towing the trailer gets 17-18mpg, depending on how I drive, traffic conditions, etc. Hope this helps some.

 

[ARCWINSTON]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Thank you all for your feed back and comments...W

 

[james082273]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

To me having a diesel was never really a way to save money through fuel costs, unless you heard me explaining to my wife why a diesel is better! With that said my 05 Duramax usually average 20 or more on the hw but I have gotten as high as 22. About 17mpg in "god aweful" DFW traffic. I also have 285/70/17 tires that take a little away but look much better.

The diesel option is no different then spending more money on a better boat or a bigger outboard. Do you really NEED it? Probably not but I will put MY money down for it.

And then there is the whole bio-diesel thing which I won't go into. I will say it is WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY more economical then E85 ethanol as my mileage with B100 only drops 5-10%.

 

[My Way]

Re: Gas vs. Diesel

Unless you need a truck bed for work, it is way overkill. Why not wait and get the best of both worlds when Jeeps comes out with their Grand Cherokee diesel. Est 19/23 mpg 218hp/376torq, with 7400 lbs of towing. The best part, the option is said to be only $1000.00 over stock on any model.