Gas in oil? But runs great...

duped

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Hello. I have an 1986 Sea Ray with a Merc 230 ( 305 chevy, quadrajet ). The past three trips with it, I noticed the oil level creeping up very very slightly on the dipstick when I would check before the trip. It was so slight, I thought either temperature change, or condensation may be at fault, and decided to just keep an eye on things. The oil was clean, clear honey brown, as it should have been. Just a little higher than normal. Not any normal person would even notice except me. I thought I might have just been crazy.

Well yesterday, I decided to take one last trip before winterizing. Once again, after the trip the oil level looked higher, and was starting to have a cloudy look. So today I changed the oil, and it had a VERY strong odor of gasoline to it, and a slightly runnier texture.

Now with past experience of water in oil in my old boat, water gives oil a frothy grey look, makes it stink, and usually when you are draining it ( i always do by the pan, BTW ) you can see some water separated from the oil as it flows. This oil I drained today is still brown... just really doesnt scream water intrusion. Also, I should mention I always drain the block/mani's after every trip once the threat of frost arises. We also havent even had a frost yet! I am pretty certain from the smell/ looks that there is gas getting in the oil. Here is a photograph of the filter to judge for yourself.

IMG_0938.jpg


Many would say gas in oil indicates running rich. When I fogged it today, cylinders #2 and #8 were slightly wet, the rest golden brown, not black or fouled. AND...!

The thing that throws me is that the boat runs absolutely fantastic. Perfect! Starts easily, doesn't smoke, doesn't leak fluids, and doesn't use a drop of oil. Idles smooth at around 700-800 RPM, and revs out great without stumbling or hesitation.

( I should also mention I primarily troll for salmon/trout on this boat, so it spends about 95% of its time at idle, or just above depending on currents. Even when we are traveling in or out, I get it going just quick enough to plane out. People have said extending idling will let gas and even water into the oil. But why does it run great, the plugs arent fouled, and we trolled all season without issue till now. )


So where would you start, experts?
 

CharlieB

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

I would immediately remove the fuel pump for inspection/replacement. It may be possible the pump is leaking fuel inside the motor, continued operation will reduce oil viscosity/lubrication and can cause expensive damage.

Glad you noticed.
 

Don S

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

Looks like water to me. Water makes the oil look milky, not foamy. Gas makes it thinner, but still the same color and the oil also smells like gas.
Looks like you even have bubbles of water on the top of the filter. Gas would mix in with the oil, and not seperate.

The red starbursts are what looks like water droplets to me.

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duped

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

There wasn't any separation of water in the oil. I watched it drain from the pan. It was a runny, even consistency with no streaking or milkiness. It just looked like oil, with just a slight cloudiness to it. And a heavy gas stench I mentioned in the original post. It does look like there are water droplets on the filter, but I assure you they aren't actually there, its just casting marks, and the oil not sticking to the filter. The red spots you outlined were actually dry. Poor quality photo.

Side note. My last boat had a bad manifold that was letting water in, and I recall taking out the oil drain plug and about a half cup of pure water drained out before the grey, milky oil started to come out. Interesting that the water settled to the bottom. But anyways, thats why I have a hunch its gas, because this oil doesn't look like that, and stinks like gas, and is noticeably thinner.

I never thought of the fuel pump, thats an easy, cheap thing to fix! I also do want to do riser gaskets over the winter. They appear to be original ( still paint on the studs ), and could be a cause of water intrusion. I just still have a hunch its gas. Don, I'll try to get a better pic and see what you think...

Thanks guys.
 

duped

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

DSCN0751.jpg


Another look. The dirt at the lip didnt come from the oil, but from my drain pan.

Anyways, its all one color, and consistency. I plan on leaving that "cup" sit to see if water does settle out of it. No question the oil is dirty ( had a few more hours on it than it should have ), but aside from that I dont know anymore. My father seems to think I'm overreacting, but I dont want to take chances on such a nice boat.

I also put some on a screwdriver and tried to see if it would burn under a lighter. It didnt.
 

Don S

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

It still looks like water to me. Not gas.
I wouldn't expect the gas to light off when you dip the screwdrive into the oil and try to light it.
Smell it, if you are like me and couldn't smell gas if you was swimming in it, find someone that can smell it. I've actually learned to see and feel gas in the oil, and that last picture does not look like gas in the oil. Looks a lot like a little water in it.

I doubt it's a riser. manifold, or gasket between them problem. That would blow the water out the exhaust. Possibley a head gasket, cracked head or block problem.
Have a look at this bulletin. it explains water intrusion.


http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/01/01_13.pdf
 

duped

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

Fair enough. I've just heard horror stories about leaky riser gaskets ruining engines. That link makes it seem to be a non issue. The ones on this engine have visible water streaks on the outside of them, but have never leaked water/ exhaust into the boat. I need to do some searching around to find a good way to narrow the issue down. I hate to tear apart a perfect running engine blindly, and I see no reason why a block or head would crack, or a head gasket would fail. We haven't had a freeze yet, it always ran very cool, and is never under any stress. I'm the second owner and the first one pampered it and sold yachts for a living. I think I had it at more than half throttle once or twice this year. It's all trolling hours. It's kinda frustrating. That's boats I guess.
 

Alpheus

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

If you still have the oil put it in a glass jar and let it sit for a couple of days to see if it separates...
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

That sure looks like water to me....


You could still have a little gas in it. But running the engine at normal temp will evap the gas out fairly quickly.

You should still check your mechanical fuel pump (and check the clear hose that runs from the pump to the carb for evidence of liquid)

If you still have the oil put it in a glass jar and let it sit for a couple of days to see if it separates...
See if it catches fire easily too (outside!)
 

Don S

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

If you still have the oil put it in a glass jar and let it sit for a couple of days to see if it separates...

I've had milky oil set for months and not seperate once it's become emulsified (sp)
 

dubs283

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

it always ran very cool

how cool is very cool??

is the engine getting up to proper temprature??

what are you using for fuel??

does the boat sit for extended periods of time between uses and fuel fill-ups??

the reason i ask is if the engine isn't operating at proper temps (too cool) the piston rings will not expand properly and seat - possibly allowing fuel blowby

if you are using alcohol ladened fuel and the boat sits for a period of time, the fuel can attract water and thus, get into the oil via blowby

i know its a stretch, but possible
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

I've had milky oil set for months and not seperate once it's become emulsified (sp)

Nah.....your spelling is spot-on!

emulsify [ɪˈmʌlsɪˌfaɪ]vb -fies, -fying, -fied (Chemistry) to make or form into an emulsion, emulsifiable , emulsible adj
emulsification n


:D:D
 

spdracr39

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

you could always take it to a local heavy equipment dealer and send in an oil sample for analysis.
 

duped

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

how cool is very cool??

is the engine getting up to proper temprature??

what are you using for fuel??

does the boat sit for extended periods of time between uses and fuel fill-ups??

the reason i ask is if the engine isn't operating at proper temps (too cool) the piston rings will not expand properly and seat - possibly allowing fuel blowby

if you are using alcohol ladened fuel and the boat sits for a period of time, the fuel can attract water and thus, get into the oil via blowby

i know its a stretch, but possible

It runs around at around 160 degrees if memory serves me. All we have for fuel in this part of the state is 10% ethanol, but I use star-tron. Boat was used at least 3 times a week. I put about 250 hours on it this season.

I did notice it was pretty wet around the fuel pump. I'll look into that further when I have daylight. Hopefully that will lead me somewhere if it is gas in the oil.

Otherwise I'm unsure where to go from this point. Pressure test? Compression test?
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

I did notice it was pretty wet around the fuel pump.
water "wet" or fuel "wet"?




I would change the oil, inspect and if necessary, replace the fuel pump and run it a bit and see if you still see evidence of water in the oil.

If you still think you have water, you should probably pressure check the block and heads.
 

duped

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

It wasn't water. Either gas or oil. After today I cant smell the difference. But the area around the pump, and the pump itself had a coating of it.
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

And there was no evidence of fuel in the clear hose going from the fuel pump up to the carb?
 

duped

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

And there was no evidence of fuel in the clear hose going from the fuel pump up to the carb?

Correct, the hose was empty. I wasn't able to work on taking the pump off yet to inspect further.
 

anymanusa

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Re: Gas in oil? But runs great...

that's exactly what my oil looked like in my Cadillac when I had a busted head gasket (ran fine) and had coolant/water getting into the oil pan.
 
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