Full tank or nearly empty for storage

[redgoat]

My 46-year-old Sea Ray I/O has the original steel gas tank. With the addition of ethanol to gas I am concerned about whether I should store my boat full or partially empty assuming I use StaBil marine formula for ethanol. The boat is stored in an unheated garage for 6 months. I also do not have any kind of water separator device installed on this vintage boat. I'm thinking that I would be better off with a minimum of fuel in the tank with StaBil added than storing with a full tank of ethanol blended fuel. Doesn't ethanol attract water and cause phase separation. Would a nearly empty tank really attract that much moisture to be of concern?

 

[Searayb]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

I've always just added StaBil to whatever I have in the tank and never had any issues.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

I pulled these links towards the bottom of this thread under "Similar Threads". And there's many, many more. This question gets asked multiple times every year. You're going to get answers anywhere from empty to full and everything in between. Use fuel stabilizers, don't use fuel stabilizers because they're nothing but snake oils. And everyone will say, "they've never had a problem the following spring". In other words, do some reading and make your own decision....... Whatever you decide, it probably wont be wrong........ Ethanol? That's another list of many threads......

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-topic...opics/gas-storage-tank-full-empty-521716.html
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-topic...nter-storage-fuel-tank-full-empty-515141.html
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-topic...s/full-tank-vs-empty-tank-storage-438569.html
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-topics-questions-not-engine-topics/gas-tank-full-empty-279115.html
http://forums.iboats.com/mercury-mariner-outboards/storage-gas-tank-full-empty-116297.html

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

My 46-year-old Sea Ray I/O has the original steel gas tank. With the addition of ethanol to gas I am concerned about whether I should store my boat full or partially empty assuming I use StaBil marine formula for ethanol. The boat is stored in an unheated garage for 6 months. I also do not have any kind of water separator device installed on this vintage boat. I'm thinking that I would be better off with a minimum of fuel in the tank with StaBil added than storing with a full tank of ethanol blended fuel. Doesn't ethanol attract water and cause phase separation. Would a nearly empty tank really attract that much moisture to be of concern?

I have been storing my boat in an unheated "garage" for over 20 years at or near empty with ethanol type fuel from when it was introduced.

Refer to : The Myth of Condensation in Fuel Tanks by David Pascoe: Boat Maintenance, Repairs and Troubleshooting


I don't use any added snake oils.


The best "additive" for "old" gasoline is NEW gasoline. The older the "old" is, the more (ratio of) "new" you should use.......

In Spring, I change the filter, fill it up and go boating.

ymmv.


Rick

 

[JimS123]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

Ethanol doesn't suck moisture out of the air into the tank. If there is condensation in the tank its due to the tank being open to atmosphere, an atmosphere that is laden with moisture and a temperature difference that caused the condensation.

Theoretically, the emptier the tank is, the greater the chance for condensation. A full tank has no air in it. However, if your cold garage has relatively dry air, and /or there is no fast temperature change, and / or the tank is closed, there will be no condensation anyway.

If all conditions align correctly and you DO get a small bit of condensation in the tank, you would be better off having ethanol gas. Yes, it absorbs a bit of water before phase separation occurs, and if you keep it below the threshold and run the gas thru, you'll be OK. But, if you have non-ethanol that absorbs no water, then the condensation will go right to the bottom of the tank and you'll be dead in the water.

 

[Slide]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

I would very much recommend adding a fuel-water separator in your fuel system, considering you mentioned it does not have one. This will protect against any ill water effects from storage, and any other unexpected water-to-fuel introduction you might run into.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

OK think of it this way. Your tank, whether filled or near empty is not filled with air, it is filled with gasoline vapor so I would not worry about condensation.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

OK think of it this way. Your tank, whether filled or near empty is not filled with air, it is filled with gasoline vapor so I would not worry about condensation.

And, gasoline vapor is quite a bit heavier than air.................

 

[wrench 3]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

As you mentioned, the problem with ethanol fuel is phase separation. This can give you too strong of an ethanol mix in the spring, possibly causing fuel system damage, pre-ignition, piston damage etc.
I leave enough space in the tank to add fuel in the spring and "stir" the tank.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

As you mentioned, the problem with ethanol fuel is phase separation.

But that's not the only "problem" and it's the same problem that "regular" (non-ethanol) gasoline has.......

Loss of higher volatility hydrocarbons. These cause a lowering of overall vapor pressure (RVP.......which is around 7-9 psi)

The lower it gets the harder it is to vaporize in a carburetor. (it's not as much a problem in an EFI engine)

The best plan is to store the tank with as little fuel in it as practical. Then simply change your fuel filter(s) and fill the tank when you're ready to use it.

 

[doyall]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

While some may call it "snake oil," I don't see any problems with a fuel stabilizer being added and mixed well to whatever is left in the gas tank, especially when VP recommends it. "The use of a commercially available fuel stabilizer such as STA-BIL? is recommended when storing ethanol-blended fuels for more than 2 weeks." Ethanol - Ethanol : Volvo Penta As I asked in a different thread, where is your scientific evidence that fuel stabilizer is snake oil?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

While some may call it "snake oil," I don't see any problems with a fuel stabilizer being added and mixed well to whatever is left in the gas tank, especially when VP recommends it. "The use of a commercially available fuel stabilizer such as STA-BIL? is recommended when storing ethanol-blended fuels for more than 2 weeks." Ethanol - Ethanol : Volvo Penta As I asked in a different thread, where is your scientific evidence that fuel stabilizer is snake oil?

I don't think anyone said there was a "problem" using it. (other than the problem of sucking money out of your wallet)

Stabil and other "Snake Oils", do not prevent the main problem with long-term storage of gasoline. Loss of RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) They do not claim to prevent it and the only way to prevent it is to pressurize the fuel tank.

Have you ever thought of why automobile manufacturers DO NOT suggest using STABIL or other "stabilizers"? MANY (gasoline powered) cars and trucks sit idle for much longer than 2 weeks with little or no ill effects. Many of us here on this forum don't do anything with our boats from SEP-JUN every year without Stabil or other "stuff" and don't have a problem. I have even stored my boat full and just used the gasoline "Next" Summer with no ill effects.

I am not saying you shouldn't do "something" regarding long term storage. I am just suggesting that if possible, store the boat with as little fuel as possible in the tank so you can dilute what's left with fresh gasoline in Spring. The David Pascoe "Yacht Survey" article proves to me that condensation is not going to be a problem in boat fuel tanks.

If the tank is nearly empty, there's not going to be enough fuel to need to blow money on "stabilizer"..........

However, If using STABIL, MMO (complete with lard), Sea Snot, or Water Glop makes you feel better using it. Don't let any of us talk you out of it.


Regards,



Rick

 

[doyall]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

... Stabil and other "Snake Oils".../QUOTE]

I have very little problems with your propositions other than the explicit assertion that fuel stabilizers provide absolutely no benefits (and that IS what you are saying) based upon your beliefs. Belief is fine. Fact is another matter altogether. You are saying as a factual matter that fuel stabilizers provide no benefit. Prove it with something other than your mere statement. I personally haven't said they do provide benefit so do not ask me to prove they do. VP has recommended their use so for the minimal cost (and that is certainly another factor *against* them) I will use them. If you don't use them that is your prerogative but until you can provide some documentary evidence from a learned, reputable source that they provide no benefit your blanket statement, based on your belief only, that they are "snake oil" is irresponsible and only displays ignorance.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

... Stabil and other "Snake Oils".../QUOTE]

I have very little problems with your propositions other than the explicit assertion that fuel stabilizers provide absolutely no benefits (and that IS what you are saying) based upon your beliefs. Belief is fine.

I'll stand by my assertion. It's based on experience. Not belief.

No one is forcing you or anyone else to deviate from what you want to do. if you are going to resort to name calling to get your point across, This is where I'll exit, stage right.

 

[doyall]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

I'll stand by my assertion. It's based on experience. Not belief.

No one is forcing you or anyone else to deviate from what you want to do. if you are going to resort to name calling to get your point across, This is where I'll exit, stage right.

What name calling? Ignorance? Irresponsible? Better look at the definitions/usage.

Ignorance - Merriam-Webster Online
Ignorance - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
noun \ˈig-n(ə-)rən(t)s\. : a lack of knowledge, understanding, or education

Irresponsible - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/irresponsible
Definition of irresponsible : If you're irresponsible , you're careless about the consequences of your actions.

Both are a precise fit here because you want this entire forum to accept as fact that your non-use of a fuel stabilizer without any physical testing to establish whether degradation to your stored gasoline has occurred is conclusive evidence that all fuel stabilizers are 'snake oil'. The fact that you didn't have any noticeable fuel related problems doesn't prove there wasn't any fuel degradation or that any level of degradation that may have occurred wouldn't have had some effect on some engine operation parameter, if not for you then for others who have different powerplants. Who should we put more faith in, some anonymous guy making unsubstantiated statements on the internet or a major marine manufacturer with research, engineering and development expertise. This is a no brainer.

In my opinion it is better that you are out of this one.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

Some people use it and don't have a problem. Others never use it and don't have a problem. Thus, personal experience serves no purpose. It all comes down to opinion.

We DO need some scientific evidence - the manufacturer should provide it.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

Some people use it and don't have a problem. Others never use it and don't have a problem. Thus, personal experience serves no purpose. It all comes down to opinion.

We DO need some scientific evidence - the manufacturer should provide it.

Actually, you make an interesting point....although it's not just opinion. It IS scientific evidence.

Because you have the personal experience of 2 distinct groups. Those who have used a procedure, product, or item, and those who have NOT.

BUT both had the same conclusion! That by definition IS a scientific conclusion.

Gold Eagle recommends putting 8oz of their fine product in 20 gallons of gasoline. Since Stabil IS 95% Kerosene, I could put the same amount of Kerosene or Diesel fuel in gasoline and not notice any difference for many years AND CONCLUDE that it's "working" & doing the same job (since doing NOTHING does the same thing)

major marine manufacturer with research, engineering and development expertise.

The same one that "developed" a Kiekhaefer Mercury design from the 1950's and later foisted the XDP drive on an unsuspecting public? Yeah. They have a LOT of credibility.

My apologies to the Original Poster. If you want to learn more about E10 and fuel additives, have a look here: Test gas for ethanol to protect your engines from contaminated E10 gasoline.
They do have a pretty good chart that offers some info on the current crop of fuel ("snake oil" ) additives.....

 

[doyall]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

... This is where I'll exit, stage right.

Promises, promises. OK, I sense your need or desire or whatever to punch buttons on this issue but all you are really doing is destroying whatever credibility you may have left. Time to give it up.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Full tank or nearly empty for storage

In my opinion it is better that you are out of this one.

Ayuh,.... 'n now We all are,....:facepalm: