Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

zoltar

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Hello!<br /><br />I am a new member of this forum and is it ever cool to see that this is available.<br /><br />This summer I purchased a used pontoon boat - a 1991 Monark 20 footer, and on it was a Force 50 HP outboard. I have heard that the force isn't a premiere ouboard motor, but I knew that when I got it. In fact, when the sales guy took me out for the test ride, it seemed to perform flawless. Got it home and it started performing worse and worse. Anyway - here is some information on the motor, and what symptoms it has.<br /><br />* The model number is 507P91A<br />* When the prop was pushed at OT, it would start to sort of lose thrust and whine. So I thought at first it was just cavatating, or the prop so...<br />* Bought and installed a new prop. No fish line. That didn't fiw the thrust issue.<br />* Stalled out on the lake and chemical stuff was all over the place in the water.<br />* Had a local marina give it a tune up. New plugs, and lube. Man at the marina said the oil was pretty dirty, but didn't mention anything about the "mayonnaise in the oil" ie. water in the oil problem.<br />* Boat wouldn't start one day, which led back to a clue to the starter. I just pushed the wires around the starter area and it fired up. There are loose wires around where the starter is, and leading to one of the wiring harness plugs. This was due to an ignition change! They replaced the whole ignition and connecting the new ignition left these wires loose somewhere (Wire connector clamp thingys holding them together), appears there was some sort of small fire around that area of the starter and above the outboard on the pontoon sundeck that is overhead. So now when the starter doesn't click I just push on the wires.<br />*Removed the lower unit of the gearcase thinking that there was a crack right by one of the 4 bolts that hold it onto the trunk. Turns out it is manufactured that way to drain the water cavity (?). That's a weird spot for that (hiding something?). <br />* I remove the lower gearcase with the drive post whatever sticking out, and set it in a bucket. I knock it over by accident and catch it while it falls by the drive shaft. All of the oil pours out of the water intake screen while on it's side!<br />*Removed the cover off where the impeller sits, a user here on the forum says to inspect seal for typical damage. Seal seems ok, impeller is in pretty good shape. Should I get the lower gearcase pressure tested??<br /><br />Whew!!! That's a lot :p :rolleyes: :p
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

1991 <br />50 507P91A - C 1991
 

zoltar

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

BAM!!!<br /><br />Rick slides in within 10 minutes and tells me the age of the motor! Now that was cool!<br /><br />Thank you sir! :D
 

zoltar

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Another angle about the oil leak from "OB" - a member here...<br /><br />"....if assembled properly and unit was tipped on side losing lower unit oil out the water intake ,is only possible if there was fracture in intake jacket on lower unit or driveshaft seal is leaking."<br /><br />Uhhh Ohhhhh<br /><br />This engine was at least pushing me around the lake this past summer. In fact it ran Ok even on the day I pulled it out. Then I got into winterizin git and found all these little issues. I just started getting into this stuff and now I have parts allover the garage!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 

zoltar

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Hey rickdb1boat-<br /><br />Do you know what the "c" means before the 1991 date?? This is all new to me.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Z
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2002
Messages
58
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Let me ask you one important question ( DO YOU HAVE A SERVICE MANUAL )?
 

zoltar

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Yes, I have a service manual. It's one of those generic types that covers a bunch of years. It did help me get the lower gearcase off, but it's pretty general.<br /><br />Z
 

rogerwa

Commander
Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,339
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

With the kind of leak you would have to let it spill out the water intakes, you would certainly have milky LU fluid. I would take it out and see if your LU fluid gets contaminated.<br /><br />Regarding the loss of power. Check out your fuel path first. Pump the bulb to see if the power picks up. If so, check the whole fuel path for leaks or clogs, ending at the carb where you may have other issues. <br /><br />Also, just for kicks get a compression reading to see where you are at..<br /><br />As for the whine, I don't know. But it doesn't hurt to knock out the easy things first..<br /><br />Another thing to ckeck is your max rpm. I had a pontoon with a 50hp force and with the right amount of people and conditions, it would lug and eventually slow down. Your max should be in the 5500 range (check you manual). If you are significantly below that you could be lugging. Which is bad.. If so, check which pitch prop you put on it..
 

zoltar

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

I looked at the driveshaft seal and it doesn't look all that bad. It doesn't appear to be cut up or worn down or anything. Maybe there is a crack somewhere. This is strange because I didn't see any mayonaise in the gear oil. <br /><br />UHG!!!<br /><br />Zoltar
 

PaulP

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 16, 2001
Messages
35
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Zoltar, I am a former Force owner 1996 70,just do yourself a favor and get rid of it now. Suck it up and get a new or different motor.I know it is not what you want to hear but take advice from a guy who had to be towed in many times. Some people don't mind them and say if you maintain them well they can be ok. All of my problems had nothing to do with maintaince issues. I bought the motor brand new and it was nothing but head and heartaches. I dont mean to sound negative but I don't want any one to go through what I did.
 

zoltar

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Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Hi PaulP:<br /><br />Your not the first to say that to me - so don't worry about that. Problem is - Im stuck with it. I don't have the cash to get a new one. <br /><br />Thank you for your input!<br /><br />Zoltar
 

zoltar

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Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Anybody else out there have any info???<br /><br />ZM
 

zoltar

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

I had the gear case vacuum and pressure tested and all is fine there. <br /><br />Hmmm. Oil does NOT pour out of the water intake screens now. <br /><br />What the heck did I do?<br /><br />ZM
 

OBJ

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
10,161
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Hi Zoltar....<br /><br />Think I'd find the salesguy and put the motor where the sun don't shine. Do ya got any type of warranty on the rig? <br /><br />Don't mess with wires that may be broke or lose, (starter issue). Maybe why it had a fire in the first place. Get your mech to check the wireing to the starter.<br />Did the mech who did the tune up say anything about metal shavings in the lower unit? This is a sure sign of a lower unit heading south. If the outfit you got it from has already drained the oil, though, you may not see any.<br />You have a lot of issues here and if it were me, I'd be taking the rig back to the dealer. Maybe find out who owned it in the first place and contact him/her and see what problems they had with the rig. Sorry for all the frustrations your having.<br /><br />Jim
 

zoltar

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
32
Re: Force 50 HP, got it used, new member needs advice.

Outboard Jim:<br /><br />I bought this boat from a dealer that was selling it for another customer - consignment deal. I think the fire was due to something with the starter get caught on fire somehow. Of course - it was replaced from the ignition all the way to the starter. So I did end up finding a loose wire and clamped it down (to the starter). Well anyway - I dont go to that marina any longer becuase they told me that I bought the boat from somwone else through them - so I am stuck with it. <br /><br />This spring will be the real test.<br /><br />I bought the boat from Klave's Marina in Pinckney, Michigan.
 
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