Force 125 initial starting problem

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My Force 125 will not start initially without a short blast of starting fluid. Once it fires I can shut it off immediately and it restarts without a problem. A few hours later it still starts normally but after a few days it takes starting fluid to get it going again. Any thoughts?
 

Jiggz

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It's obviously a fuel delivery problem. If you haven't done so, install a clear fuel filter between the fuel pump outlet and the carb inlet. This is more for troubleshooting instead of filtering (although it does function as a secondary filter).

When priming before starting, watch how fuel gets into the clear fuel filter and if it actually fills at least 1/2 way. If not, the priming bulb is malfunctioning and might need replacement.
 

Jiggz

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I just replaced the priming bulb and it's working properly so that's not an issue.

Are you doing the correct starting procedures, i.e. engaging the choke until it burps and then re-cranking again without the choke. And also placing the throttle control lever in fast idle position?
 

foodfisher

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Dirty fuel recirculation system makes for hard starts. Starting fluid doesn't have any lubricant=excessive wear.
 
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I don't have to run it on starting fluid just the initial ignition. That would also cause pre-ignition....not good. I'm an auto mechanic of 30 years but this situation has me puzzled. I feel like there's a choke passage within the carb that I'm not familiar with that's plugged but have a hard time believing both carbs would be affected.
 

roscoe

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So are you advancing the throttle to 3/4 + throttle when trying to start it?

Is this a new problem with this engine? or a new to you engine?
 

jerryjerry05

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Do a compression test.
Does it turn over hard?
Load test the battery.
Clean/rebuild the starter, a dragging starter can still turn it just not fast enough.

I had a 85hp that did the same thing.
One day I hit the starter when the motor was tilted up.
It started while up.
I shut it down and lowered it.
Then it would start like it should, for a while.

Then when it got cold I'd have to do this again.
Had to do this for a while.
Never really figured it out.

The only thing I can think is the floats move when tilted and allows fuel thru.

Try it??
 
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This has been an ongoing problem since I got the boat a couple of years ago. I do advance the throttle to change the timing when starting. That helps for starting after the initial start.

I'll try the tilt idea this weekend when I'm back on the boat. Thanks.
 

Jiggz

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Replacing the fuel pump diaphragm is a very easy process. One thing you want to make sure is place some rags or something to catch any falling screws or parts. I believe the only tool you need is a flat tip screw driver. Just to be sure you put it back together take pics along the way. There are check valves that need to be inspected and oriented correctly.
 

Jiggz

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This has been an ongoing problem since I got the boat a couple of years ago. I do advance the throttle to change the timing when starting. That helps for starting after the initial start.

I'll try the tilt idea this weekend when I'm back on the boat. Thanks.

Placing the throttle lever control in fast idle position not only advances the timing but actually slightly opens the throttle. Timing and throttle advance in these motors is hard connected or linked, i.e. everytime the throttle linkage is moved, so does the timing. This is all both accomplished with the timing tower. Which at the top is connected to the trigger advance plate and at the middle is with the clevis rod link to the cam advancer.
 

Jiggz

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From my personal experience with my 89-125HP, I used to have starting problems but only when cold. Following all the correct starting procedures did not help either. So I decided to do some serious troubleshooting in the water. And what I found out is very unusual.

When I push in the ignition switch, I can hear and see the choke (mechanical solenoid type) engages. And then as soon as I turn the key to start position, the starter motor engages but also at the same time, the choke drops down despite keeping the ignition switch pushed in!

I tried this more than a couple of times and I cannot get the motor to fire. And the more I try cranking it over the slower the starter goes. However, if I held on the solenoid linkage the motor will burp and then next cranking without choking starts the motor.

From this diagnosis, I concluded if the battery is not big enough in starting capacity or charge, whenever the starter engages, the choke system will drop down. And this is because electricity always takes the path of least resistance.

The starter cable is quite very large compare to the #12 wire on the starter solenoid, and the starter itself is almost a direct short in sucking power, hence depriving the solenoid of power to stay engaged.

My remedy? Installed a 30 amp single pole single throw 12V auto relay relay. The relay's coil is powered by the original green choke wire from the ignition switch. The power circuit of the relay is connected directly to the starter solenoid with a #8 wire and the other end to the solenoid. Never had any starting problem ever since.

Obviously, this only applies to mechanical type choke system. If you have the enricher type choke system, you want to check make sure the fuel lines are clear and not bent and is actually working.
 

jerryjerry05

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Jiggz that sounds like the key switch isn't working right?

A lot of starting problems are caused by the wrong style battery.
Deep cycle vs regular starting battery's.
 

pnwboat

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With my boat when I go WOT it activates the kill switch and the starter wont turn. I could disconnect the kill wire at the control box. I went ahead and ordered a fuel pump. I think my pump is causing flooding. I have been using a lot of fuel lately.

FYI......The "Kill Switch" does not disable the starter. The "Neutral Safety" switch disables the starter. This prevents you from starting the motor while in gear. To start the motor with the throttle advanced, you pull the Throttle handle out towards the center of the boat (depends on the type of throttle you have) and then advance the throttle handle forward. The handle will only come out about a 1/4". Pulling the throttle handle out disconnects the gear engagement cable and the gear case is in the neutral position. NOTE: You will not be able to push the throttle handle all the way forward. This is for safety reasons because if you start the motor at WOT with the gear case in neutral, you can possibly over-rev the motor causing damage.

I've been using this method to start my motor regardless of whether it's hot or cold, it pretty much fires up on the first turn of the key. I think that by advancing the throttle forward, it also advances the timing which seems to help the motor fire up more easily.
 

Jiggz

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Jiggz that sounds like the key switch isn't working right?

A lot of starting problems are caused by the wrong style battery.
Deep cycle vs regular starting battery's.

Jerry, that was my first thought, the key switch must be faulty and losing contact when turned while pushed in. But continuity check proved otherwise. It never lost continuity even after many times of testing. Besides, I never changed the ignition switch and with the relay, never had any starting problems or the choke dropping off when the starter engages. Like I said it was unusual but not improbable.
 

Jiggz

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Just to be clear, the primer is the primer bulb that you depress prior to starting. If it got firm it tells you it is working. Now you still need to make sure that the choke or enricher is working. I believe this is what you are referring to.
 

texas0407

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I had the same problem with mine. I took it to marina and they said that when u take off the carb bowl if the is touching the carb housing it will cause the carb to not fill correctly. so he told me that once the float is n resting position bend the tab until the float barely touches the carb housing. haven't had problem since
 
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