For all to know

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Tail_Gunner

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/business/08markets.html?ref=worldbusiness

Investors around the world breathed a sigh of relief on Sunday after the federal government took over and backed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, assuring a continued flow of credit through America?s wounded mortgage system.
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Doug Mills/The New York Times
Henry M. Paulson Jr., left, the Treasury secretary, and James B. Lockhart of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, at a news conference on Sunday.

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News Analysis: A History of Public Aid During Crises (September 7, 2008)

Times Topics: Fannie Mae | Freddie Mac


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But the takeover of the companies reinforced concerns about troubles of the American economy and highlighted its significant reliance on foreign investors, particularly in Asia.
Almost immediately, the move will protect central banks in Asia, which have amassed hundreds of billions of dollars of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds, from taking big losses. The move should also bode well for American financial institutions and, in the short term, the broader stock market.
As policy makers looked to the start of trading in Asia on Monday, investors said they expected the spread between Treasury securities and comparable Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debt to shrink drastically, reflecting renewed faith about the safety of the market.
In recent months that spread, or premium, had ballooned significantly, eroding confidence in the health of the companies. Before the housing crisis, Fannie and Freddie could borrow money at a small premium over the federal government?s rates. ?If it becomes like U.S. Treasuries, that is a positive for Asia,? said Ifzal Ali, the chief economist of the Asian Development Bank in Manila.
Treasury?s purchase of mortgage securities may help lower interest rates on home loans, which this summer rose to their highest level in a year. That reduction in housing costs should help cushion the decline in home prices, which have already fallen more than 18 percent from their peak in the summer of 2006, said Bill Gross, the co-chief investment officer of Pimco, the large bond investment firm.
?It goes a long way to stopping this housing deflation which, I think and Pimco thinks, is at the heart of the problem,? he said.
But the plan also raises a host of questions about the fragility of the American economy, which will continue to figure into investor calculations. On Friday, for instance, the Labor Department reported that the unemployment rate climbed to a five-year high of 6.1 percent.
Perhaps most important, despite the government support for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, any stabilization in home prices is still a way off, and the waves of foreclosures battering the housing market are not likely to reverse right away. What is more, the plan will do little to stem losses in risky home loans, commercial mortgages and debt used by private equity firms to acquire companies. Financial institutions have already taken write-downs of $500 billion and the International Monetary Fund projects that losses could reach $1 trillion.
?It?s a good half a plan, but its still just half a plan,? said Joseph Mason, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, who cautioned that the government needed to outline its longer-range plan for the two companies and the credit markets to restore greater confidence to markets.
Yet for foreign investors, particularly in Asia, the takeover will do little to assuage mounting fears that the economic problems in the United States are not only far from over, but could also hurt growth in China, India and other emerging economies.
?People don?t know about the depth of the problem,? Mr. Ali said.
Asian central banks, particularly the People?s Bank of China, have emerged over the last several years as important buyers of bonds from the two American government-sponsored enterprises.
Standard & Poor?s estimates that the People?s Bank of China held $340 billion of these agency securities at the end of June, but has been unable to estimate Asian holdings over all because the data is too unclear.
While central banks around the world have historically accounted for a quarter of purchases of Freddie Mac debt, their share rose to 37 percent for debt issued since 2006, according to an analysis of the latest available data by CreditSights that was released on Wednesday. The bulk of those purchases appear to have been by Asian central banks, which have been buying dollar-denominated securities at a record pace to slow their currencies? rise against the dollar and thus preserve the competitiveness of their exports.
Still, Asian central banks are likely to remain major buyers of mortgage securities. That is because they must reinvest dollars earned from exports to the United States, said Daniel Alpert, a managing director at Westwood Capital, an investment bank in New York. The Treasury backing of the debt will serve to make the bonds more attractive, he said.
?The money that they have been giving us as basically a gift will come back to them,? Mr. Alpert said, referring to the Asian investments in the securities. ?They should be quite pleased.?
More Articles in Business ? A version of this article appeared in print on September 8, 2008, on page C1 of the New York edition.
 

Uraijit

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Re: For all to know

We're headed to Hell in a handbasket. When the central banks start circling the wagons, you can pretty much bank (pun intended) on something majorly bad going down in the near future. Those who have made unwise financial decisions are going to suffer greatly.

And since as citizens we are all bonded to the country's debt, that means ALL OF US!
 

BMOLCHANY

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Re: For all to know

This does not sound good at all. Does anyone see the funny looking birds circling overhead? If you do watch out.
 

mthieme

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Re: For all to know

I'm not a current events kinda person - it's a sacrifice I have made for boating.
However, one of the guys at work is. He tells me that the Japanese have heavily invested in our banks amoung other things. I don't know if this is true, but I would guess there are many offshore investors.
Who will our banks default to when they go bust?
 

gonfishn

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Re: For all to know

Lets not forget the Saudis-China and a whole slew of other foreign folks who own a lot of Real Estate in the USA....Seely bedding is no longer America owned Nor is a few other bedding companies as in the 3's

They are in name only. We are safe because we are only only making it here but are owned by outsiders
 

QC

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Re: For all to know

I will only add one thing to this thread. Every time there is a bailout or a failure of a big company or social security is mentioned or the national debt is discussed the combined reaction is "we're screwed" . . . With that said I am 48 and I have been told I am screwed a lot, and somehow, the sun comes up and America prospers and the Stock Market rebounds and our children go to school, and there are jobs and there are banks and there is lfe pretty much as we have known it . . .

Not an excuse for apathy, but that has been my experience.
 

Bigprairie1

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Re: For all to know

I will only add one thing to this thread. Every time there is a bailout or a failure of a big company or social security is mentioned or the national debt is discussed the combined reaction is "we're screwed" . . . With that said I am 48 and I have been told I am screwed a lot, and somehow, the sun comes up and America prospers and the Stock Market rebounds and our children go to school, and there are jobs and there are banks and there is lfe pretty much as we have known it . . .

Not an excuse for apathy, but that has been my experience.

...I have to say that is the way to look at it QC and I would have to agree. Simply put, I think life goes on and things are going to improve!
(oh, and absolutely do not be apathetic about it)
BP
 

Uraijit

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Re: For all to know

I will only add one thing to this thread. Every time there is a bailout or a failure of a big company or social security is mentioned or the national debt is discussed the combined reaction is "we're screwed" . . . With that said I am 48 and I have been told I am screwed a lot, and somehow, the sun comes up and America prospers and the Stock Market rebounds and our children go to school, and there are jobs and there are banks and there is lfe pretty much as we have known it . . .

Not an excuse for apathy, but that has been my experience.

Meanwhile, we've exhausted every possible means of bail-out.

9 TRILLION dollars worth of national debt. That's not Billions, billions is an ALMOST comprehensible number (A billion seconds ago, it was about 1974). Try 9 THOUSAND times that...

Maybe it hasn't happened yet in our lifetimes, but ask your grandparents how they enjoyed the 30's... :rolleyes:

They didn't have ANY national debt, and virtually no consumer debt, compared to what we have today. Just because your kids are doing okay today, doesn't mean they're going to be able to eat tomorrow.

No matter how many times history teaches us this lesson, we seem to forget it within a generation.
 

WizeOne

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Re: For all to know

There is a political element to the mortgage crisis and the deep trouble that fannie mae and freddie mac find themselves in, but then we are not allowed to discuss that.:rolleyes:
 

bekosh

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Re: For all to know

Privatized profits with Socialized risk just guarantees continued hi risk investments.

This is a very BAD thing.
 

JB

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Re: For all to know

I have been told hundreds of times in my life that the sky is falling, and hundreds of times our country has emerged stronger and richer than my grandparents ever imagined.

If there is a political element it is made up by the pessimists (not a political party) who can't seem to escape victimhood.
 

mscher

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Re: For all to know

Lets not forget the Saudis-China and a whole slew of other foreign folks who own a lot of Real Estate in the USA....Seely bedding is no longer America owned Nor is a few other bedding companies as in the 3's

They are in name only. We are safe because we are only only making it here but are owned by outsiders

Maybe these foreign investors are practicing the same "buy high -sell low" investment strategy, that the Japanese did with U.S. in the 1980's.

It worked so well for them, they went into a severe recession for over 10 years. ;)
 

WizeOne

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Re: For all to know

If there is a political element it is made up by the pessimists (not a political party) who can't seem to escape victimhood.

A rather short sighted response to a problem that is so widespread and pervasive. This debacle did not just happen because lending institutions decided to ignore millinea old guidelines for lending money.:rolleyes:

btw, I did not insinuate that it was at the hand of one specific party, but it is political none-the-less!
 

roscoe

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Re: For all to know

Hardly a secret why they made these risky loans.
Congressional mandate and gov't guarantees = double risky business activity.

This crisis was created. Now we have no choice but to bail them out.
 

jay_merrill

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Re: For all to know

While its always important to believe in our collective ability to make things better, there is a very real danger in ignoring reality. The simple fact of the matter is that we are very, very deeply in debt as a nation. From a Social Security system that is nothing more than a stack of "IOUs," to the fact that we are not so slowly losing our status as an economic leader in the world, we have a great deal to fix.

I have worked for a couple of companies that went bankrupt in my lifetime. In each case, there was a common perception and type of behavior before the fall - that of "it will be OK." I see the same type of behavior in public office, and in the attitudes of ordinary citizens. Its as if both groups think we can never over-extend ourselves financially. Thus far, we have managed to bail ourselves out over and over, but what happens when our options to do so begin to diminish. What happens when other nations view us as a bad credit risk?

I think one of the great ironies here, is that one of Osama Bin Hidin's stated objectives in attacking the WTC, was that he wanted to cripple the U.S. economically. While he has not been able to do so himself, we are doing a pretty good job of it on our own.

I hope we wake up.
 

Tyme2fish

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Re: For all to know

The wake up will not occur until local lenders wake up.
The local lender will give a no money down, low initial interest rate to entice the non-credit worthy person to sign a loan.

Why does the local lender do this? They know the mortgage will be covered by another lender (Fannie or Freddie) and the original lender keeps the fees, etc.

We can't fix stupid. Stupid, uneducated home buyers, and smart (stupid) local lenders.

Just because you have the right to buy a home, doesn't mean you have the ability (finances) to buy a home.
 

achris

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....We can't fix stupid. Stupid, uneducated home buyers, and smart (stupid) local lenders.

Just because you have the right to buy a home, doesn't mean you have the ability (finances) to buy a home.

Here, here... and well said... Everybody was banking on pay rates going up to cover the cost of these cheap mortgages once the interest rate moved up to the standard rate... Didn't happen...

Lesson... If you can't afford it, don't buy it!

I lay a lot of the blame at the foot of the real estate agents too... I don't know what it's like in the US, but here (Oz) houses are advertised with a bracket price, like $450,000 to $500,000. So, if my budget is $450K, I go look, put in an offer of $450K and the agent tells me the vendor won't accept anything less than $500K... The agent tries to push me higher "because it's only a few dollars a week more and you love the house". Most people get sucked in and end up with a mortgage they can't maintain...

Chris.........
 

Uraijit

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Re: For all to know

I have been told hundreds of times in my life that the sky is falling, and hundreds of times our country has emerged stronger and richer than my grandparents ever imagined.

If there is a political element it is made up by the pessimists (not a political party) who can't seem to escape victimhood.

Well, being that you're so far and clear of "victimhood" that must mean that you're willing to absorb any losses I make with my investments.

I'll go find the highest risk investments (economics teaches us that higher risk, equals higher returns, if realized). I'll invest EVERY PENNY I have in the highest risk investments I can find. If they work out, freaking sweet, I'm a rich man, and can go find more high risk opportunities (too bad you don't get any return on it).

And of course, if they fail, you can just cut me a check, and I'll start the process over again...

Naturally, you'll agree to this, because otherwise, you're just a "pessimist, who can't escape victimhood".

I like your plan!

So, when do we start? :rolleyes:
 

arboldt

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Re: For all to know

Too many directions to point fngers at. Too much greed, from the plutocrats to politicians to the neighbors.

Think about this theory.. Years ago when most retirement funds were in the hands of large pension plans, they invested where they thought there would be a good return. Sometimes they won, sometimes they didn't. But all pension plans didn't go to the same investments.

With the demise of defined-benefit plans, most people had to direct their own retirement (401k, IRA, etc) and well as taxable funds. Most people don't have the knowledge, skill, or time to research different investments, so they follow the herd into a bubble which eventually collapses. It seems the economy has been a series of bubbles over the past few decades, in a feeding frenzy for profits. Few people have the fortitude or knowledge to get out when they can, and so they lose a lot when the bubble collapses.

The popular news feeds the frenzy when it reports on how far and fast prices rise. Just a couple years ago there were so many news articles about housing prices skyrocketing, and there's only so much land... Before that, tech stocks were the financial salvation. Before that...

No, I don't have a solution, just what my parents taught me decades ago -- that if everybody's doing it, it's probably the wrong thing.
 
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