Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

[kwhines12]

I have a floor drain on a new boat to me, with a "ball" check valve inside. The boat is a bay type boat. When I'm setting still a little water, maybe a gallon comes up from the drain into the boat floor. When I run down the lake, the water drains back out. Stop and it does this again. Is this normal or is the ball not sealing? Thanks

 

[TimBobCom]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

No, water leaking into a boat through a drain is never right. I'd look into replacing that check valve ASAP. What is 1 gallon today could turn into 1000 gallons next time you go out. You might want to look at re-routing the drain as well to keep it above the water line as check valves fail over time and you really don't want to deal with it if it becomes a big enough failure.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

throw away the ball valve, plug the hole solid, and install a bilge pump. You are also flooding your bilge and will rot your hull and soak your foam.

 

[kwhines12]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

Thanks for the advice.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

Umm, question, if he plugs the hole, how do you think water is going to get out? The foam will not be soaked if it is going out to the outside of the boat through a ball valve and drain line. The bilge will not rott if maintained correctly and bilge pump installed.

throw away the ball valve, plug the hole solid, and install a bilge pump. You are also flooding your bilge and will rot your hull and soak your foam.

Kwhines, it does sound like you have a bad ball valve, when you replace it, make sure you replace it with a bronze ball valve. I have seen some builders us plastic. A picture of what you have would help. There are many different set ups.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

the water gets out via the bilge pump while in the water and out the drain hole when on the trailer and the plug out. ("plug the hole" means put a plug in there, a standard garboard.) His problem is not water going out; it's water going in. Obviously his bilge pump isn't working (or is missing) if a gallon of water is getting up to the deck.
IMO a ball valve below the water line is never a good idea. It's just asking for trouble. Normal operations should not require frequent evacuation of large quantities of water; if your operations are such that it does, you need a boat designed for it: sealed deck and scuppers.

 

[J.J]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

Hi, I have had same problem. My boat has a sealed wet deck that sits on the waterline and I use a wash down hose on deck. Had flapper type drain scuppers... they leaked. Changed to ball scupper valves ... they leak as well, a few fish scales or bits of dirts in them and they leak. I am now going to change to the duckbill type drain scuppers and give them a go!

 

[emoney]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

Y'up, scuppers have a tendency to leak unless they're debris free. I'm a fan of re-engineering them, especially on a pleasure/fishing boat. They're hard enough to deal with on a sailboat.

 

[barbosam]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

It sounds like what you have is a ball type scupper, and as J.J. said when a little debris gets in them they can fail to seal properly. Therefore when you let off the throttle and your wake converges up the transom water will be pushed up the drain hose and in theory the ball in that scupper floats and seals the scupper as the water rushes up it and prevents water from entering the cockpit. If it's not working properly, the screen on that scupper should be removable by just twisting it off. Sometimes you need a "key" that will pick up two of the holes in the screen and allow you to twist it off. Once you get the screen off you can either clean out the debris or replace the rubber ball inside.

If these are draining via a thruhull that is below the water line, then it would be adviseable to put a ball valve on the back of the thruhull so that if the hose was ever punctured below the water line you would be able to shut off the incoming rush of water. Also you would be able to open and close the scuppeer drains as you please, helping to prevent the issue you are having now.

Also watch the balance of the boat. If there is too much weight aft then this will increase the amount of water trying to come up through the scuppers. I have seen it many times with four or five guys all fishing in the back of a 20' boat with scuppers, the boat is bobbing in the waves and you can just see the water flowing in through the scuppers.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

Homecooking, reread what the op said, he is not having trouble with the bilge pump. This has nothing to do with the bilge pump unless it were to leak at the ball joint or break a hose under the deck. My boat is a self bailing boat. To rely on a bilge pump to constantly evacuate the water from the deck, simply wouldn't be smart. My deck is above the waterline and so are my thru hulls that evacuate the deck water. The bay boat that the op has, I am assuming does not have the room for a hose loop under the deck, that is why there are ball valves installed. The water that is coming in on the deck, is simply coming in through a thru hull fitting that is attached to a hose and to a ball valve. Sounds like he ball valve is bad. The water will then run out of the boat again while on plane because of natural gravity. Sounds like he has to much weight in the back, batteries, motor, people, etc. This system should never empty into the bilge unless the boat has a broke thru hull fitting, bad ball valve/leaking or broken hose. All your hoses should be double clamped also. Just want to make sure the op doesn't get the wrong info here.

the water gets out via the bilge pump while in the water and out the drain hole when on the trailer and the plug out. ("plug the hole" means put a plug in there, a standard garboard.) His problem is not water going out; it's water going in. Obviously his bilge pump isn't working (or is missing) if a gallon of water is getting up to the deck.
IMO a ball valve below the water line is never a good idea. It's just asking for trouble. Normal operations should not require frequent evacuation of large quantities of water; if your operations are such that it does, you need a boat designed for it: sealed deck and scuppers.

 

[barbosam]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

I think we are all getting a little confused here, based on the OP's original post I am confident that he is referring to something similar to this...

http://www.gemlux.com/catalog2010/plumbing-drains/89501

A drain with a built in floating ball type check valve. He does not seem to be referring to ball valves. Maybe we need some clarification from the OP?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

here's my assumption FWIW: I have a Key West that is pretty much a "bay boat" design--fairly flat bottom and low sides. It is not self bailing; the deck is at or below the waterline and therefore it does not have scuppers. There is a flat floor drain at the stern in front of the splashwell that drains the deck into the bilge, where the bilge pump evacuates the water. there is also a standard garboard drain plug. So if everything is working, water should never rise up through the floor drain, and any water that accumulates in the bilge is pumped out. I have seen water rise up through the floor: once when I forgot the plug, and once when the bilge pump failed and we had heavy rains fill the boat.

If I replaced the garboard plug with a ball-**** plug, and it malfunctioned, I'd have water coming in the boat when sitting still and going out when running--if the bilge pump also did not work. As OP described.

so Chris, you may be right, or he could have a boat like mine and I'm seeing the problem correctly, and differently from you. Only the OP can solve the mystery!

 

[kwhines12]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

The floor drain that I speak of is all together different then the hull drain and/or bildge pump. This floor drain has a ball valve inside of it. The drain connects to a rubber hose about a foot long and then to a thru hull fitting out the back of the boat. No plug at the outside of the fitting. I would guess the ball should plug the floor drain when stopped and it does not. It allows a small amount of water into the floor of the boat, getting our feet wet. This water does not enter the hull at all. Drains back out when the boat is under way. The thru hull fitting is about 6 inches under the waterline of the boat. Seems to me a stupid design. I could plug the thru hull fitting and just put a open floor drain in the boat. This would allow the water, if any, in the floor of the boat to drain down thru the hull and be pumped out via the bildge pump or drain out the hull drain when the boat is on the trailer and the plug removed.

 

[barbosam]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

This design is very common in fishing boats the only catch being that per ABYC those thruhulls should have ball valves (shut offs) on the back of them, but not all manufacturers are registered ABYC compliant and therefore are not required to follow all ABYC rules.

As myself and others have stated the key to those drains working properly, and not allowing back flow as you are experiencing, is to keep them clean, clean, clean! You should be able to disassemble them and clean them out very easily. Also if the ball is damaged or not floating then you need to replace it. If you take a picture of it I may be able to help you identify it and tell you how to get a replacement ball, they are very inexpensive.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

You said what I was trying to say: "Seems to me a stupid design. I could plug the thru hull fitting and just put a open floor drain in the boat. This would allow the water, if any, in the floor of the boat to drain down thru the hull and be pumped out via the bildge pump or drain out the hull drain when the boat is on the trailer and the plug removed. " Your existing rig would make me a nervous wreck and clearly it is not failsafe.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

Kwhines, This is exactly what I thought, this water should never go into the bilge. Ever! The pump in the bilge is there for water that may find a way there, it sould be a last resort of getting water out of your boat . No boat on the planet is made to drain the decks into the bilge. If that were the case, many boats would sink often! No boat manufacturer is going to rely on a bilge pump to extract deck water. Bilge water yes, but not deck water.

I agree that what you have is a poor design. But if the ball valve is working properly and the hose to the thru hull is connected well and not leaking the system should work. Are you serious when you say the thru hull is 6" under water? Most are just above the water line unless it is also used as a water pick up. I would be cutting some scuppers in at the stern and closing that system up. Post some pics!

The floor drain that I speak of is all together different then the hull drain and/or bildge pump. This floor drain has a ball valve inside of it. The drain connects to a rubber hose about a foot long and then to a thru hull fitting out the back of the boat. No plug at the outside of the fitting. I would guess the ball should plug the floor drain when stopped and it does not. It allows a small amount of water into the floor of the boat, getting our feet wet. This water does not enter the hull at all. Drains back out when the boat is under way. The thru hull fitting is about 6 inches under the waterline of the boat. Seems to me a stupid design. I could plug the thru hull fitting and just put a open floor drain in the boat. This would allow the water, if any, in the floor of the boat to drain down thru the hull and be pumped out via the bildge pump or drain out the hull drain when the boat is on the trailer and the plug removed.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

Kwhines, This is exactly what I thought, this water should never go into the bilge. Ever! The pump in the bilge is there for water that may find a way there, it sould be a last resort of getting water out of your boat . No boat on the planet is made to drain the decks into the bilge. If that were the case, many boats would sink often! No boat manufacturer is going to rely on a bilge pump to extract deck water. Bilge water yes, but not deck water.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Some boats have scuppers above the water line to drain the deck, which is also above the waterline, directly overboard. Some do not have scuppers or any means of direct draining, and cannot if the deck is at or below the waterline. I have owned 2 starcrafts and now own a key west with no scuppers or other direct drain; any water accumulates in the bilge (which is the area between the deck and the hull). I can assure you that each of these boats was made on this planet. I believe that the typical bowrider, so popular around this forum, has the same arrangement?

 

[high'n'dry]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

The OPs boat is self bailing. It has overboard scuppers which drain the "wet" deck and do not have anything to do with a bilge or bilge pump. While annoying, it is not unusual for self bailing boats to have a bit of water come back in through the scuppers at rest. This is not a safety problem and will not cause the boat to sink. you do NOT want to plug the scuppers and re-route them into whatever bilge you may or may not have (not all boats have a bilge) as doing so could cause a safety issue as there would be no way for the water to escape if you take a wave.

Again, the scuppers are there to drain the deck, to remove water for whatever reason that comes aboard. The deck is sealed from the bilge if there is one. My Boston Whaler has a sealed deck with scuppers, the tiny, little bitty, bilge is sealed from the deck. I do take water in from the scuppers if several people get in the back, such as to land a fish, it is normal. I do not have the ball valve type scuppers, mine have a flap. You might consider replacing the valve or cleaning it.

JR

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Floor Drain leaking water into boat? Is this right?

Sounds like a very poor design to me. :facepalm: Why anyone would rely on a pump to stay afloat is beyond me. Now, if it is a foam filled boat, which most bowriders are not, then I could see where they would maybe design it to go to the bilge, just because the boat would only hold so much water.

You will not ever see me buying a boat that drains deck water straight to the bilge instead of out a thru hull. My boat has no scuppers but all the drains flow overboard via drains in deck, thru hull fittings and hose. Even my storage boxes are fed overboard. The only ones that are not are my in floor fish wells which are still plumbed to the outside of the boat via macerator pumps.

Even exiting a thru hull fitting below the water line is scetchy to me. But I have seen plenty that do just because the deck in the boat is close to the water line, thus needing it to be lower for gravity fed. I have also seen where some boats will have a bilge box with pump installed in it where the drains are fed to the box to be pumped out. Again, very bad design!

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Some boats have scuppers above the water line to drain the deck, which is also above the waterline, directly overboard. Some do not have scuppers or any means of direct draining, and cannot if the deck is at or below the waterline. I have owned 2 starcrafts and now own a key west with no scuppers or other direct drain; any water accumulates in the bilge (which is the area between the deck and the hull). I can assure you that each of these boats was made on this planet. I believe that the typical bowrider, so popular around this forum, has the same arrangement?