Flex Fuel

[Crestliner2007]

A new service station has opened up down the road from me. They offer the standard 3 grades of gas. They also have another pump on the side offering what they refer to as "FlexFuel", which is designated as being an E50somethingorother Ethanol product. The cost is about a nickle less than regular gas, so it has perked my interest.

Have any of you used this stuff in your tow vehicle? How about your outboard? Could I run it in my 5 year old, 4-stroke Yamaha outboard? Thanks for your input folks!

 

[JB]

Re: Flex Fuel

E85, the so called "flex fuel" is used in vehicles and engines calibrated to burn it, not in regular gas burners.

With modification, your Yammy could use it, but you would have to unmodify to go back to gasoline.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Flex Fuel

E85 gets worse mileage than regular gas. Makes the price difference negligible. And as JB said, you can ONLY use this in vehicles designed for it.

 

[Isaacm1986]

Re: Flex Fuel

Flex fuel is designed for cars with flex fuel motors, basically you can run your flex fuel motor on either flex fuel or regular gas. however you cannot run your regular gasoline motor on flex fuel, and there is no way your outboard will run on it.

So unless your tow vehicle is a flex fuel, you will have to stick with gasoline.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Flex Fuel

I have yet to figure this Flex Fuel thing out... I mean, you build a motor that can run on E85 or gasoline, but a regular motor that runs on gasoline cantt run on E85. I don't get it... It seams to me if you can run a flex fuel engine on both, then you shoul dbe able to run a gasoline engine on both...

What are the differences between the two engines and why the gas engine will nto run on E85???

 

[Philster]

Re: Flex Fuel

Flex Fuel car fuel systems are different, and engine programming and some simple designs differ, too.

While the differences are not startling on paper, they are absolutely critical differences that are engineered into the Flex Fuel Vehicles, because putting 85% ethanol in something not designed for it is going to eat away at certain parts, and the engine management systems will not be able to deal with the vastly different power characteristics (E85 is less powerful, in the simplest of terms).

Heck 10% ethanol seems to be giving some fuel systems grief.

Boaters are warned on the pumps at areas gas stations to learn about 10% ethanol before using it.

 

[chrclo]

Re: Flex Fuel

Currently E85 is way to expensive to run in a flex fuel vehicle. Go to the federal govt website on e85 and there is a calculator to tell you if it is saving you money. You need the difference in price to be about a dollar per gallon to make it worth while. Of course this is only if you have a flex fuel vehicle.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Flex Fuel

E85 generally isn't bad for rubber/fuel line components in most vehicles, there is a fairly large group of enthusiasts that run it in various vehicles. What WILL cause problems is that you need more e85 per unit of air, and fuel injectors in non-flex fuel vehicles are only sized to provide enough gasoline without much extra room. I personally have ran it over 3 years now, no problems with fuel lines/pump.

Anyway, swap out injectors and fuel pump, and with a good custom computer tune and the right engine, you can get back to nearly the same mileage, and a HUGE bump in low end torque. (and lower EGT's also) Even though you have less power per gallon in E85, you can gain that back with tuning. (in particular, you can get away with alot more timing across the board)

Forced induction engines benefit the most, NA vehicles will take a mileage and power hit. Forced induction engines can turn up the compression ratio (aka boost) to take advantage of the quality of e85. An NA vehicle set up to run on both fuels needs to have a safe fixed compression ratio that won't kill the engine when running on gas.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Flex Fuel

You need to first understand the "ethanol" situation as it is today. In years gone by you bought gasoline (regular, mid grade, or premium). Some states began adding up to 10% ethanol to gasoline -- in Minnesota that happened about 1997. That blend of fuel can be used in any engine including your boat. However, a few years ago, auto/truck manufacturers began building the "flex fuel" vehicles which could use regular gas, E10 (gas with 10% ethanol) or E85 which is 85% ethanol and only 15% gasoline. Vehicles called "flex fuel" has special fuel system components, sensors that detect the amount of ethanol in the current tank of fuel and the engine management system is designed to set engine paramaters regardless what the fuel mix is. Looking at the engines side by side you would be hard pressed to see the difference. As for the engine itself it runs just fine on any of the three types of fuels. It is the control, fuel injection, and sensor systems that differ on these cars and that's why you can't (or shouldn't) run E85 in a non-flex fuel vehicle. I too know people that use it on a regular basis and have suffered no ill effects (yet). As for whether it pays or not depends on how and what you drive. E85 is currently 50 cents/gallon cheaper than regular (E10) so I currently use it as it provides a slight economic advantage "in my vehicle and the way I drive". I have to say it that way because it just starts another ethanol economy fight if I say it any other way. At 5 cents a gallon difference you are saving no money and in fact it costs you more because of the decreased fuel economy. E85 is also corrosive which is why it is trucked rather delivered via pipeline.

 

[Crestliner2007]

Re: Flex Fuel

Thanks guys! Appreciate your input.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Flex Fuel

Yep,
Vehicles that can use it are significantly more expensive,
Costs around the same ounce for ounce as premium gas,
Gets less miles per gallon,
You currently have to travel further to get it.
At least that is the scenario in my part of Canada.
Pretty much a no brainer decision here.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Flex Fuel

Yep,
Vehicles that can use it are significantly more expensive,
Costs around the same ounce for ounce as premium gas,
Gets less miles per gallon,
You currently have to travel further to get it.
At least that is the scenario in my part of Canada.
Pretty much a no brainer decision here.

they actually charge more for flex fuel vehicles up there? At least here, it is included by default in some models, no extra charge.

as far as the cost, I break even if e85 is 10% cheaper, but that is obviously highly dependent on the vehicle. (my mileage hit is 1 to 2 mpg) At the current price it is substantially cheaper for me to run e85.

 

[chaffinyo]

Re: Flex Fuel

In Iowa we have slect A blend pumps and I put E20 in my 1998 bonneville and it pulled 30 avg

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Flex Fuel

2 year old post.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Flex Fuel

Please do not post to old threads. Thanks.