Fishin motor --not a space ship

rocket rich

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i THOUGHT I WAS BUYING A FISHING MOTOR , BUT GOT A HIGH TECH :mad: WHAT A MA CALL IT!!!! All this stuff is great if we're running a space ship, or racing something. But all I wanted was a new motor . I truly don't think me and this motor, 9.8A3 will ever be buddies. Please take it .....::grumpy:
Thanks for all you guys Help..
 

tpenfield

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

I see that you have posted a few questions about the motor and its operation and performance. Do you want to elaborate on the space ship comment?

basically a utility motor, as most small outboards are.
 

rocket rich

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

Just too many difference's between 2 and 4 stroke. Don't like change?? I'm hanging in there but it's tough . Keep making changes but it just create''s more problem's. Thanks
 

Packard8

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

Just too many difference's between 2 and 4 stroke. Don't like change?? I'm hanging in there but it's tough . Keep making changes but it just create''s more problem's. Thanks

Rich, I know you have written several threads concerning your new motor, but it's not clear to me what the current issues are. If you can consolidate your concerns here in a

1.
2.
3.
etc

format maybe the experts here can give you better guidance. Barring something seriously defective with the new motor I'm sure it can be made to work right and get you back on the water fishing.
 

rocket rich

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

1- it ventilates or cavitates not sure which?
2' can't figure out the difference in height of motor, is it 2 inches longer?? where do I measure from
3. too much to do to make it a good fishing motor.
4- yes I can use it but it doesn't go slow enough will measure when I get my tach
5 all in all just a pain in the neck.
what happin to ease of operation???
6 can't raise the height of the transom with wood as the bracket would have no where to screw on too except the very top of the transom
7 having to run the gas out everyday is a big pain and a waste of fuel.
That's about it . I guess I''m just having Senior Days in a row. But I do catch a lot of Crappie
 

xjdriver

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

Why would you have to run the gas out everyday? Hey, at least you dont have ro mix ur gas. Ohh and ur saving the environment! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoooo
 

Sea Rider

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

Some general answers.

1-Surely ventilates, engine sits too high, if with water splashes back or over transom sits too low. Need to know by pulling neck out transom, not assuming.

2-Measure middle transom to lower keel in straight line, what's the height in centimeters ? If with time read this : http://forums.iboats.com/inflatables-ribs/abc-sib-rib-installation-guidelines-628902.html

3-It's a excellent fishing motor once correctly height seated and rpm tach checked with pitch optimization if needed to match your boating application.

4-If engine is not correctyly height seated, it's uselss to test with tach, will not deliver best full rpm, prop grip nor thrust. If idle speed seems fast, adjust with tach to specs.

5-Usually a much lower and backwards pain...

6-Don't know yet ? If transom needs to be raised, place wooden shims, install a proper height engine mount. If needs to be lowered, chop transom down accordingly o buy a mini jack plate and play with different leg heights on a water trial untill opt height is dialed.

7-E mixed fuels does bad things to thin rubber internal carb parts if left with E fuel sitting for long periods. Run dry if being a 2 strokes engine, not really needed If plan to use it frequently or being a 4 strokes engine. It's as simple as to disconnect engine fuel hose when near destination and let engine drop dead, that's if not planning to flush it afterwords...

Universal thruth : Engine manufacturers dosen't care onto which type of boats you'll be hanging their engines to, boat manufacturers doesn't care which engine brand will be powering their boat's transom. Sometimes a height maximization is mandatory for state of the art engine/transom perfect marrriage. Imagine building same model boat with different transom heights to match every market available engine brand, out of this world.

Happy Boating
 
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Packard8

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

1- it ventilates or cavitates not sure which?
2' can't figure out the difference in height of motor, is it 2 inches longer?? where do I measure from
3. too much to do to make it a good fishing motor.
4- yes I can use it but it doesn't go slow enough will measure when I get my tach
5 all in all just a pain in the neck.
what happin to ease of operation???
6 can't raise the height of the transom with wood as the bracket would have no where to screw on too except the very top of the transom
7 having to run the gas out everyday is a big pain and a waste of fuel.
That's about it . I guess I''m just having Senior Days in a row. But I do catch a lot of Crappie

Rich, I?ll leave it to the pro?s for better answers, but here goes?

1. Not sure about ?ventilation? but cavitation usually means the motor races and the prop doesn?t grip?.often means the motor is too high and the prop is sucking air.
2. Measure from where the motor sits on the transom to the prop shaft and compare with your old motor.
3. ?????
4. Try adjusting the idle set/stop screw slower. As long as the oil warning light is not lit I think you will be OK re oil pressure and water flow.
5. ??? Once set up right you shouldn?t need to touch it again.
6. Is the larger horizontal plate just above the prop about even with the bottom of the hull? Do you really need to go higher? Re item #2 above, how does the shaft length compare with your old motor? Fine tuning of the jack height requires on the water testing, maybe a local pro can help with this.
7. Running the carb dry is your choice, whether on a new or old motor of any make, 2 or 4 stroke. If you use the boat frequently, maybe not absolutely necessary, it?s more of an issue with new fuels, not the motor. Seniors have senior moments (ask me how I know?.lol).
 

rocket rich

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

we have no local pro's on the tohatsu motor in st louis mo. there is one about 60 miles from my place? too far to go , maybe? My mid seventy's boat lowe 1542 flat bottom jon is a great boat for my way of fishing , one pole 10' jiggin in no more than 6 foot of water, but get's really choppy every day . so proper rigging is necessary. but with this 4 stroker I'm confused. where do I get the right info, everybody has info that doesn't go with my boat and new motor. not looking for perfect but a cross between a good mix. The boat is rated for 25 hp so I'm way below that but had good service out of my 96 Johnson 9.9, still is a good all around motor. Still don't know why I bought a new tohatsu 9.8a3. I'm at my whit's end as to how to mount this moto. so I'll go with a happy medium and try to put the AV about 1 inch below the bottom of the boat and see???? your comments are welcome Thanks it's 17 degrees this morning no fishing
 
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pvanv

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

1. Ventilation is sucking air from above the water (or out of the exhaust when in R). Cavitation is causing "boiling" cavities of water on the suction side of the prop. Totally different things. Your 9.8 is very very unlikely to suffer from cavitation. If you trim incorrectly, or are jacked too high, you could ventilate.

2. Shaft length and transom height work together. Shaft length is measured from the underside of the transom clamp (where it sits on the transom) to the antiventilation plate (the big plate just above the prop). That is typically rigged to be about even with the bottom of the boat, +/- an inch initially. Then trials from there find the sweet spot. Modern Japanese motors are longer than older motors, sometimes about 2" longer.

3. Proper rigging of any motor of any brand on any boat requires centering, correct height, appropriate trim, and correct pitch for the application. These primary parameters must be the best in order to get the best overall performance. Small motors (especially if a bit undersized for the boat, as in your case) can benefit a lot from proper rigging. It must be done on the boat, in the water, and the sweet spot located by trial.

4. If you must have the boat go slower than the minimum idle speed (which needs to be confirmed with a good shop tach... and is about 950 for your motor -- do not set it below that, or there will be other problems), then you need to go with less prop pitch (or run one of the 4-blade HT "sail" props)... so that the idling motor creeps slower through the water.

Note: Beware that if you are severely under-propped (to go really-really slow at idle), you can exceed the max WOT RPM. In the case of the MFS9.8A3, there is an ESG (electronic speed governor) that will engage at about 250 RPM past the max... The ESG will stagger ignition to prevent you from over-revving. So... If you are under propped, when you get to full throttle, the motor will complain with staggered ignition (and will definitely sound like it is "stuttering") to prevent it from blowing up. That's pretty easy to identify... if you have a tach, you will be at about 6200. Even if not, easing back on the throttle a little from WOT will get rid of the stutter.

5. The "pain in the neck" comes from not knowing how to rig the motor -- any motor. And there is plenty to know... hence professional boat riggers. That's where, if you get stuck, a local pro can help. What does your dealer have to say?

6. Yes, it is possible that your transom is too short for a given motor. In that case, shimming won't work, and a pro will need to make a modification. We see that a lot, when long-shaft motors are run on short transoms. If it turns out to be a matter of a boat with too low a transom, none of the modern motors will rig out correctly without transom modification.

7. Running the carb dry is standard procedure. It was always a good idea. Today, it's mandatory, if the motor will sit for more than a few days. It's a good habit to get into, since a couple of days can turn into a couple of weeks. Modern EPA-rated carbs are more succeptible to varnishing from the evaporation of fuel, but the real culprit is that today's pump gas is very dirty, and laden with alcohol and water... none of which are your friends.

Since the Tohatsu motor is also the Nissan... and the Mercury 4-stroke (30 hp and below)... and the Evinrude 4-stroke (20 hp and below since 2012), there should be a dealer in your area who can assist you in rigging your setup. For that matter, brand familiarity is not critical to the rigging. The principles are the same regardless of brand.

HTH
 
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rocket rich

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

thanks again for all your hard work to get me on the right Path. What NOW.I've contacted my dealer that I purchased it from and so far no Reply??? I've contacted the closest Nissan/ tohatsu dealer and offerred to bring the boat and motor to his place of business so far No Reply there either??? I going to try to raise the motor about one inch as thats as far as I can go without adding a jack plate which I think you don't think it will work?? But today is cold and I can't work in cold weather ? That's it for now waiting for the dealer's to get back to me??? RR
 

kpgraci

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

I've got nothing new to contribute to this except a little sympathy for RR. After my 'new ' 4 stoke left me stranded 3 times in a row, I was thinking that my 41 year old '72 merc 7.5 that NEVER let me down and still runs to this day (but it stopped peeing) was a much more relaible motor - and I abused and ignored it too. Oh well, that's what we call progress now-a-days.
 

Packard8

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

I've got nothing new to contribute to this except a little sympathy for RR. After my 'new ' 4 stoke left me stranded 3 times in a row, I was thinking that my 41 year old '72 merc 7.5 that NEVER let me down and still runs to this day (but it stopped peeing) was a much more relaible motor - and I abused and ignored it too. Oh well, that's what we call progress now-a-days.


Sometimes I wonder if we have gone too far in the quest for fuel efficiency and emission control. Someday we'll be using 4 stroke chainsaws with catalytic converters and computer controlled direct injection. I'm not sure how much impact the relatively few old 2 stroke outboards actually have in the grand scheme of things.

I also used to have an old Merc 7.5 that always started and ran with a minimum of attention. I will say that my Tohatsu 20 4 stroke has been flawless so far.......knock on wood!
 

rocket rich

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

The dealer that I purchased my motor from has a totally different opinion??? I too, have a 96 johnson 9.9 that to this day is still running of course I've put major bucks in it the last two years, So I said lets get a new motor and we got the shaft. I can't afford to get stranded, too many health issue's . this new motor isn't as quiet as they claim it to be. it doesn't use much gas either which is not a big to me.. All these issue's now is not worth it.. I don't want to go back to my old motor but I will if I have too , as now is my best time of the year for fishin and breathing with my one lung and PAH... Some day I'll just not come home???
 

pvanv

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

Sometimes I wonder if we have gone too far in the quest for fuel efficiency and emission control. Someday we'll be using 4 stroke chainsaws with catalytic converters and computer controlled direct injection. I'm not sure how much impact the relatively few old 2 stroke outboards actually have in the grand scheme of things.

I also used to have an old Merc 7.5 that always started and ran with a minimum of attention. I will say that my Tohatsu 20 4 stroke has been flawless so far.......knock on wood!

I agree that we are over-regulating a lot of things. I can telly you this about pollution, though... I can test 4-strokes all day in my tank, and it does not get as dirty as testing only one 2-stroke. On the Great Lakes, with a lot of water, relatively few boats, good flow through the lakes, and a short season, I doubt that all the old 2-strokes were a serious impact on the big picture of the environment. But... In a high-density area, with a long season, that axiom might not ring true.
 

rocket rich

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

Well , with my boat on the level concrete I measured all the area's in question and decided to raise and level the motor 1 1/8 inches, now the AV sets 1/4 inch below the boat bottom , when my big butt get in the boat ofcourse it will go deeper?? it's as far up as the current transom would let me go?? I have bolted lt down just in case of what ever could happen . If this give's me the comfort level I''m looking I'll do a permament fix. I got no where with the local warranty dealer , ?? or the selling dealer in Cooksville tenn?? Everybody just pass'es the buck. As long as it gets fixed ( by trial and error) who cares. So Much for the Warrantiy people.. Non existening... I just think more people have this issue than just me??
 

rocket rich

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Messages
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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

Well , with my boat on the level concrete I measured all the area's in question and decided to raise and level the motor 1 1/8 inches, now the AV sets 1/4 inch below the boat bottom , when my big butt get in the boat ofcourse it will go deeper?? it's as far up as the current transom would let me go?? I have bolted lt down just in case of what ever could happen . If this give's me the comfort level I''m looking I'll do a permament fix. I got no where with the local warranty dealer , ?? or the selling dealer in Cooksville tenn?? Everybody just pass'es the buck. As long as it gets fixed ( by trial and error) who cares. So Much for the Warrantiy people.. Non existening... I just think more people have this issue than just me??
 

Sea Rider

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

RR,

You're right when saying more people experiences same issues than just you. Boaters assume it's just a matter to sit engine on transom and out you go. Most times it's not so. Will depend on engine manufacturers as some of them are bit larger compared to other brands. You have experimented by your self that boat and engine dealers gives a crap when called back when boating problems starts, they simply will wash their hands like Pilatus did and leave you alone blindless with no back answer whatsoever. It's a cruel boating world out there...

Happy Boating
 
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rocket rich

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

NO Problem, it'll all work out with time it's 17 degrees this morning no working on it till after lunch .will put in the water tomorrow
 

Packard8

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Re: Fishin motor --not a space ship

I agree that we are over-regulating a lot of things. I can telly you this about pollution, though... I can test 4-strokes all day in my tank, and it does not get as dirty as testing only one 2-stroke. On the Great Lakes, with a lot of water, relatively few boats, good flow through the lakes, and a short season, I doubt that all the ol", that axiom might not ring true.

I see your point Paul but living in Cali I see the goofy extremes all too often. I recently had to smog my '06 Dodge/Cummins truck. The smog tech lifted the hood, verified the VIN and confirmed that it had a diesel engine and said "you passed, that will be $50 please".

I'm all for clean air & water but some things just don't make sense, like using 1.5 gallons of petro products to produce 1 gallon of ethanol :confused:

Cheers,

John
 
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