Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

[perna00]

I just installed my first fishfinder by mounting the transducer by the "thru hall" method. I have a 2007 bayliner discovery 195. It has the keel pad and I used a two part epoxy to set it. It is reading the depth perfectly based on my depth finder but I think it may be getting some interferrence. It is reading hundreds of fish everywhere I drive to the point I know something is off. I compared the readings with the "demo simulation" mode on the finder and I noticed that the top of the water and bottom of the water readings are very wide and fuzzy where as the demo is almost perfectly a clean cut line. I was in salt water this time to test it if it makes a difference. Any advice or anyone out there every have the same problem?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

I say bait up a hook and drop a line over the side and catch them while they're schooling like that!!!

It's air or air bubbles between the hull and water, a very common problem. Unfortunately, since you've epoxied your transducer in already there's little you can do about it now because the only real soloution is to move the transducer to a different spot... usually further back toward the transom.

 

[snowman48047]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

Tons of fish marks and very wide very fuzzy surface and bottom lines sounds like a sensitivity adjustment is needed.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

Agree with the SENSITIVITY set too high. Even algae shows up as a fish. Then turn the fish ID off and use the arches.

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

Agreed... turn the sensitivity down or catch those fish already!

 

[MRS]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

What unit do you have and also reset to default setting and see what happens.

 

[perna00]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

What unit do you have and also reset to default setting and see what happens.

It is a Lowrance elite-5. It has the GPS and Fishfinder split screens. I'll try adjusting the settings to lower the sensitivity. I was reading on it and it says if I'm getting interferance, it would mess with the depth mostly.

 

[MRS]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

You may need to update software also go to lowrance home page and check out how to update and or reset to factory settings. Here is link not sure if it will work if not look for link. http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Software-Updates/Elite-5-DSI/

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

Without seeing the screen it is hard to say- but I think that resetting to the factory settings won't help you. Run it in advanced mode and learn how to use the settings.

I have an Elite5 but I only use it for GPS and navionics. I have a black-and-white Eagle 480 i use for sonar. I hope it NEVER dies!!! Which leads me to my next suggestion: set your screen up to have colors that make sense. Too often I am on someone else's boat and their sonar has all these colors everywhere and I have not a clue what we are looking at! However, I have also noticed some of the skilled fishermen I have been fortunate enough to fish with have color sonar with displays that show fish, bait, and bottom without looking like I have been slipped a mickey for an unwelcome acid trip.

Anyway, it may not be your installation point... Get the thing functional first. Turning off fish ID is a good thing as mentioned by several. And just so as you know, many harbors, backwaters, etc. and even open water during the summer can hold so many fish that the screen is overwhelming to look at! Yes, there can be that many (little) fish under your boat- that's what all those bigger fish, birds, fishermen, etc. are all catching and eating. Billions of "baitfish" get spawned every year- that's what your sonar is showing probably.

 

[minuteman62-64]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

I have the Elite 5 and was having similar problems (also in salt water). I noticed the manual indicated to use "Shallow Water" mode in less than 100 ft. of water. Selected that mode and it cleared a lot of the clutter up.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

I have the Elite 5 and was having similar problems (also in salt water). I noticed the manual indicated to use "Shallow Water" mode in less than 100 ft. of water. Selected that mode and it cleared a lot of the clutter up.

From the Elite 5 user manual: "Fishing modes enhance the performance of your unit by providing preset packages of sonar settings geared to specific fishing conditions."

Also, later it states, "Sensitivity Controls the level of detail shown on the display. Too much detail will clutter the screen. If Sensitivity is set too low, desired echoes may not be displayed"

I am glad that the "shallow water" setting worked for you. However, it is going to be more useful for you to learn what the sonar does and how you can improve its response by using "Advanced Mode" and the menu options. That way you get the full performance out of this excellent high-tech entry level gadget.

The "Fishing Mode Options" menu basically lets the operator choose some filters that Lowrance pre-selected as a best guess starting point to provide somewhat acceptable performance response for a particular situation. On average, these filters will work OK. Each filter in the menu changes how the software interprets the sonar signal to display marks on the graph, changes the number of pings per minute (temporal frequency), and in some cases changes the oscillating frequency of the ping (i.e. 50kHz, 83kHz, 200kHz), and the colors displayed on the graph/screen.

By adjusting the sensitivity, graph displayed colors, ping speed, and surface clarity filters, etc., yourself (manually, advanced mode) you can optimize performance of your sonar.

Do you leave the seat in your car in a position that worked well for someone else? Or do you adjust it to optimize what works for you? Is somebody else's average going to be OK for you all the time? No. Sonar needs for adjusted for different conditions as well.

Three crucial factors in your sonar learning curve everyone needs to conquer to enhance your boating safety (and if you fish) increase successful fishing:

1) Sonar settings Everyone needs to learn what the settings on their sonar unit do for the conditions your boat is in. Whether you are advanced enough to use manual settings in Advanced Mode or you are still learning and choose to (or need to) use filters like Lowrance's "Fishing Mode Options" as the captain of your boat it is your responsibility to learn how to use the safety net a sonar can provide. Not only that, as indicated, if you are fishing you want to see fish, not clutter

2) Fish Symbols Along with that, turn OFF fish symbols or "fish ID." This is a filter which does more to obscure what is going on under the water than any other feature. Turn it off!

3) Fishing target depth In the Lowrance manual it states (as you indicated) that the unit may not track bottom properly... Just a curious question: why do you want to track bottom anyway??! If you are fishing in, say, 80 feet of water, and all your fish marks are at say 30-55 feet and that is where all your baits are positioned, manually set the sonar to "100 feet" or perhaps even less depending on how fast the bottom may come up). Who cares that you troll out of 80' and wind up in 150' of water when you are fishing 55' at the most as long as you are still marking fish at where your lines are at? You don't need to see anything deeper! It doesn't matter. By running the sonar to display only the depth you are fishing and using Advanced Mode to manually adjust the menu options to best display the fish and bait under your boat on the particular day and under the specific conditions that day you enhance your ability to see target fish at the target depth instead of optimizing to "track bottom." (if you are fishing water with a depth of, say, 200 feet and your sonar is set to "automatic" as far as depth, smaller marks of fish at 35 feet will display at 1/2 the size they would if you were manually set to 100 feet depth. Those marks on the 200' depth display will be slightly over 3-times as large if you set to the 60' scale (again, anything below what you are fishing doesn't really matter, does it?)

BTW- Bottom will show on the graph anyway: it may be a hard bottom showing a strong echo return or a soft bottom with a wider band of weaker echo, but it will be there. Your "overlay data" will still show "94.2 feet" (for example) when your depth is manually set to 60 feet and you are over deeper water and bottom isn't "on screen." Conversely, if depth is set to 60 feet and the bottom is at 48.4 feet, it will both show on-screen and display "48.4 feet."

If you use a "general setting" filter you may filter out bait you want to see when you get rid of the clutter. Or- in the case of displaying "fish symbols"- the filter may be showing you a "fish symbol" for a tight pod of bait, an end of a branch, an old mooring, dense weeds clumped up and suspended, etc.

Lastly, while it is good to "clear the clutter up" always remember that the clutter is real! Something is down there and you are filtering it away. That is why I don't like factory set filters: on some days or on some waters those "best case average" filters will be filtering out stuff I want to see. The sonar pings may change speed (a.k.a. temporal frequency-how many times a minute a "ping" signal is generated) or kHz (oscillating frequency- of the waveform generated by the transducer) with the filter but the ping strength sent out is the same. The filters merely change how much of the actual returned signal is sent to the display by the software.

Anyway, I hope this both helps your learning curve and generates curiosity among many to learn the features, understand sonar, get the most out of their units.

 

[minuteman62-64]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

OK, good info. So, as a neophyte, who has barely learned how to turn my FF on, if I start with one of the "Factory Settings" can I then go to "Advance Mode" and fine tune the settings?

 

[MRS]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

yes..... That is where you should start. Plus go to web site and read the tips they give.

 

[perna00]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

Thanks for all the info. It helped me think of things differently. I took the unit out again and messed with changing the sensitivity. I turned it down to around 75% and it made quite a bit of difference. It looked more like the last fish finder display. I still had a few very large pockets of small fish about 5' above bottom (possibly algae) but not like before. I'm thinking this unit is quite a bit better than my last hummingbird inexpensive one. I'm going to try all the filters/setting changes other than sensitivity next time I'm out. I also found an update making mine update from 2.8 to 3.6. Now I just got to figure out the best ways to catch them now that I can see them!

 

[dingbat]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

I took the unit out again and messed with changing the sensitivity. I turned it down to around 75% and it made quite a bit of difference. It looked more like the last fish finder display. I still had a few very large pockets of small fish about 5' above bottom (possibly algae) but not like before.

What you need to understand is that "sensitivity” is really a gain adjustment. To increase the so-called “sensitivity”, they are amplifying the incoming signal from the transducer. Anything you amplify a signal you introduce distortion. The higher the gain, the more “distorted” the image becomes. You want to keep the sensitivity setting to a minimum to minimize false detections etc. I typically run my gain between 20-40%

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

What you need to understand is that "sensitivity” is really a gain adjustment. To increase the so-called “sensitivity”, they are amplifying the incoming signal from the transducer. Anything you amplify a signal you introduce distortion. The higher the gain, the more “distorted” the image becomes. You want to keep the sensitivity setting to a minimum to minimize false detections etc. I typically run my gain between 20-40%

We do almost the opposite here, We run ours at a rather high setting so nothing is missed, the distortion and actual objects look different, so some clutter is desired, my sensitivity is typically higher than 85%, sometimes well into the 90's.
We want to see every bait fish no matter how small, so 75% should work fine. I must say though, that because yours is at 25% and mine is at 85% doesn’t mean much, different brands with different transducers in different conditions will all have different settings and in the end what we see on the screen may not be all that different.



I just recently converted to the Lowrance Elite series ( I also use the HDS series) and there was a bit of a learning curve, and the manual isn’t all that helpful. I read and re-read it many times and it didn’t answer many of my questions.
As for depth setting, if you set it at 60’ and you are in 150’ of water it will most likely not read the bottom, and not only that, you will lose all of the returns and the screen will turn dark. Sometimes it will still read correctly if you aren’t too much deeper than your setting, but go too far past it and will you lose it all.
The best method I’ve found is to set it for the deepest area, say 150’, then hit the + button, this will zoom in to 50% of that depth. Now you are looking at 75’ of the water column. You can then hit the up or down arrow (button) to view the part of the water column you want to look at, if you hit the + again it zooms in on even a smaller range. This is the only method I’ve found that will allow me to look at just the top 30 or 40’ feet of water when in 150’ feet. I don’t like doing it this way, but it works.

On my Garmin I could set the depth at 40’ and it would only read the top 40’ no matter how deep it was, and it continued to read the correct depth on the screen, the Lowrance won’t do this. At least not in any mode I’ve found so far. It also says it won’t do this in the manual.
The best thing to do is go out and play with it, the menus can become confusing, and frequently it can be difficult to get back to a menu you want to view, but just keep trying. The first time out I was so mad I wanted to return it the next day, now I like it.
Lowrance also puts on classes here to instruct people on how to use their products, they will have 20 or 30 units set up on desks for people to work with and on a large screen the instructor will walk everyone through how to get the best results, plus answer specific questions.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

We do almost the opposite here, We run ours at a rather high setting so nothing is missed, the distortion and actual objects look different, so some clutter is desired, my sensitivity is typically higher than 85%, sometimes well into the 90's.

Since when does fog makes for better visibility than a clear day?

We want to see every bait fish no matter how small, so 75% should work fine. I must say though, that because yours is at 25% and mine is at 85% doesn?t mean much, different brands with different transducers in different conditions will all have different settings and in the end what we see on the screen may not be all that different.

Quite the contrary, the fact that you have to amply the signal 3 times more to see the same detail tells me one of three things right off the bat.
1. Your unit has less power
2. Your transducer isn?t as efficient (sensitive)
3. Your unit's detection algorithm is lacking

Look at it this way. You have two light bulbs. You put bulb #1 in the socket and turn up the dimmer switch until you can see an object on the floor. You note the position of the dimmer switch and install bulb #2. You turn up the dimmer on bulb #2 until you can see the object on the floor. This time, you have to turn the dimmer up three times higher than bulb #1 to see the object. What does that tell you about bulb number #2?

What is the ?Q? of your transducer?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

That's not really relevant. If you use two different dimmer switches, in different rooms (painted differently), with different bulbs, and the bulbs are at different distances from the floor, then you have more a accurate description of the circumstances. Then each time you use the light you just adjust it as needed, if you have a 100 watt bulb in one and a 500 in the other and both on a dimmer, but only need 60 watts, then you are equal.

Whether yours is more powerful or not doesn't play into it, if we can both see every detail we want to at 150' then it makes no difference whether mine is at 80% and yours is at 40%, what we see would be the same.

We may want to see theromclines, schools of Krill and even the faintest sign of a larger fish near the edge of the area being covered by the transducer, turning the power down reduces the chance of spotting these things.

If you were in a room and only turned up the dimmer switch until you could just see the floor, you would be missing a great deal of detail in what is on the floor and other items in the room, turn the light up to a higher intensity and you are able to see a great deal more detail of whats in the room and where it is.

When looking at the screen I have no problem reading the screen and telling the difference between clutter, and fish or bait, It’s not like fog where details are hidden behind the clutter, large fish, bait and other things are just more likely to be detected. I also adjust it as needed for the conditions and needs at that time.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

That's not really relevant. If you use two different dimmer switches, in different rooms (painted differently), with different bulbs, and the bulbs are at different distances from the floor, then you have more accurate description of the circumstances. Then each time you use the light you just adjust it as needed, if you have a 100 watt bulb in one and a 500 in the other and both on the dimmer, but only need 60 watts, then you are equal.

Whether yours is more powerful or not doesn't play into it, if we can both see every detail we want to at 150' then it makes no difference whether mine is at 80% and yours is at 40%, what we see would be the same.

One major fault in your analogy. You do not have a dimmer switch. The outputs of ?recreational? sounders are fixed. What you have is a pair of night vision goggles in the form of a gain adjustment. Night vision goggles make up for the lack of light, to a certain extent, but the trade off is a distorted view and turning up the ?intensity? doesn?t reduce the distortion, it only makes it worst.

It?s not like fog where details are hidden behind the clutter, large fish, bait and other things are just more likely to be detected.

As some one who was once lost in the fog, you can?t believe what your missing until you see it for yourself. Google CHIRP GSD24 to see the light

Do yourself a favor checkout the link below:

http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads/installguide/Theory_of_ Operations.pdf

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Fishfinder install questions; seems to read too many fish.

The difference is you can put on or off sunglasses to reduce/increase your sensitivity to light, or turn up and down a dimmer switch, while they are different, they do the same thing, the analogy may not be perfect, but is close enough for what we are talking about.

I don't have an Airmar transducer on this unit, but we do at times put them on higher end units. I also looked closely at the Garmin units.

I went with the Elite series Lowrance on this boat because most of the time I don't need to know anything more than the depth of the river, but I did want GPS. The Elite series offers a very bright easy to read color screen, GPS, and a good view of what’s going in fairly shallow water, at least shallow for us, and where I fish with this boat (Jet boat). It’s a relatively low cost combo machine that seems to outperform other players in the same price range.

My buddy just picked a new Garmin unit that needs to be run at a much lower setting or the screen is covered with cluttter, it cost more, but didn't seem as easy to read details.

Again, I use the Elite series and know what settings tend to work, at 75% on 200 he shouldn’t see much clutter, If you are using something else your settings may not be relevant.