Fireline has got me frustrated!!

[scipper77]

Last year I used 6 or 8 pound fireline all season with impressive results. The stuff is so strong that when I got snagged I was worried that my rod would break before the line. With this in mind I thought I would try the 4# test fireline crystal this year.

I bought a spool ($15) cleaned and oiled my rod etc... First time out with it my knots kept snapping off. Not slipping off but breaking off. They were breaking really easily (not much force required). I had 2 break-offs trying to set the hook and 1 break-off casting. I lost a spinnerbait, and two set ups with Gary Yamamoto products ($7-8).

I wrote it off as 4# fireline being my mistake. I went back to the store and bought 8# test fireline original (not crystal, another $15). Went out today and caught a few smaller bass. Then it happened again, I had a hit, snapped off at the hookset.

I have been using a blood knot without any issues for years. I decided to try a better knot for the slippery fireline even though the line was not slipping. I went with a triple Palomar knot. Results were only slightly better than with the Blood knot.

I fish quite a bit and have never had issues with my knots. As I mentioned earlier, with the old line I was worried that the rod would break before the knot or the line.

I've spent around $40 so far trying to get new line that works on my reel and I'm getting quite frustrated!! Anyone have any advice?? Do I need to "break in" the line (It's still waxy and stiff cause it's new)??

 

[bkwapisz]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

www.fishingclub.com and click on "Knot Wars"

I catch the TV show and some knots are apparently quite a bit stronger than others.

 

[raven7]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

I've done some knot testing here at home with Power Pro braid. Still slippery like fireline. About half the time the knots will slip, even if I pull the tag end tight with pliers to cinch the knot. Uni-knot, palamar, cinch, albright, etc. The only sure way I've found to stop the knot from slipping through is to burn the tag end with a lighter to form a little ball.
Since you've lost your lures, it's hard to say if your line broke or your knots slipped.
My favorite is the Palamar knot because it quick to tie and the line is doubled through the eye.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

The line broke below the knot where it loops around the hook. I know this because the knot is still there after the break.

I have been reading up on issues with fireline and shock loading and I am starting to question if the old fireline I was using was 10-14# test?? While the fireline is extremely strong, it is very susceptible to breaking off when shocked.

The consensus in the fishing community is that power pro line is a better option than fireline. This is highly debated however and I just want to keep on catching bass.

I had 4 on yesterday in 20 mins, before my line snapped again. With my old line (still on my other spool) I would go for weeks to a month without retying, and then I would only retie to put on a different lure.

Any other big fishermen (or ladies) want to tell me what line works best for them?? I see "ONE" more line purchase in my near future.

I'm open to anything braided, mono, hybrid line. Someone please sell me on some line that won't break off on the hook set.

Forgot to mention, I use a Phleuger gold medalist (like president but 7 bearings) spinning reel, with an ugly stick 7' medium or medium heavy rod.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

The only problem I have with Fireline is how easy it cut. I fish around a lot of oyster bars and rocks. Fireline doesn't stand up to the chaffing at all.

I use #65 and #80 power Pro on all my trolling rods with great success. Lots of mystery break-offs w/ #30 Power Pro. Lots of theories why but nothing definitive.

On all my light tackle stuff I use #10 and #15 Sufix Performance braid. Expensive, but the best braid I've used in the lighter classes. Fish to #50 using #10 braid w/o a problem.

Most I know use a short mono leader with braid. The leader gives you a little shock and abrasion protection. I use a 30" lg. #20 mono leader w/ #10 braid. Use a double uni knot for the connection. Ten turns on the braid, seven turns on the mono

The biggest problems people have with braid is knots. Very few knots work well with braid. Ten turn uni knots work very well as do ten turn improved clinch knots.

 

[brdhntr]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

Loosen your drag a bit when using the fireline. I use 8# Fireline on the Detroit River, jigging walleye. Never had a breakoff on the hookset, but I have my drag set so a bit of line will pull out on the hookset. Using a slower action rod, would help a bit, as well, but I prefer fast action rods with a little less drag for my vertical jigging application.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

I'm suspicious that I got some bad line as I have used fireline before without this problem. My brother in law just got some 6# fireline from Bass Pro, and I am waiting to see how his line is.

I keep thinking in the back of my head that I just need to break it in as the waxy coating makes it stiff, but I doubt this is the case.

Also I think I might start tying an overhand knot in the tag end just in case it is slipping.

 

[brdhntr]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

The knot I use for braid is a modified trilene knot. Loop end through the eye twice, wrap 8-10 times around main line, tag end through the 2 loops at the eye, then tag end through the loop created by going from the top of the wraps through the loops at the hook eye, wet and pull tight. Never had one slip that way. Also, be sure you wet the line, as the heat can damage the line and cause the breaks you are describing.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

progress!! Went fishing on lunch today (it's a sickness) and got skunked. The pond near work is a tough pond but there are some real lunkers in there. I figure all of the casting I did would help me to wear in the line a little better.

Went fishing after work for one hour (I told you it's a sickness) and caught 10-12 bass with no break offs. I had my drag set light, only gave medium hook sets, and didn't catch anything in the 3# plus range.

I used my own modified trilene knot, three times around the eye of the hook, wrap 6 times and pull through the opening between the eye of the hook and the 6 wraps.

I'm not sure if the knot, broken in line, or just taking it easy on the hooksets are what made the difference. I did miss a few bass because I was afraid to set the hook "properly", and many of the ones I did get were barely hooked at there lips. If I can't give a firm hookset this line is worthless to me.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

I used my own modified trilene knot, three times around the eye of the hook, wrap 6 times and pull through the opening between the eye of the hook and the 6 wraps.

This certainly explains your break offs. Braid will cut into itself in a heart beat. Your double and triple wrapping does nothing for the strength of the connection. Provides lots of contact points for the braid to cut into itself.

The secert to braided connections is to minimize overlap and maximize friction. A 10 turn improved clinch or a uni knot have proven time and time again to hold up well to anything you can throw at them.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

This certainly explains your break offs. Braid will cut into itself in a heart beat. Your double and triple wrapping does nothing for the strength of the connection. Provides lots of contact points for the braid to cut into itself.

The secert to braided connections is to minimize overlap and maximize friction. A 10 turn improved clinch or a uni knot have proven time and time again to hold up well to anything you can throw at them.

I agree, the funny thing is that this is the only knot that has not broken off. I just thought I would try something different since I had breakoffs with the palomar, triple palomar, and standard trilene. Because the breaks were where the line loops through the hook I took a trilene knot and looped through the hook three times and then instead of finishing with the tag end through the eye loops I passed through above them.

I will continue this knot untill it breaks.

I appreciate the advice and will try both uni and improved cinch next, unless of course the current knot holds up well!!

 

[scipper77]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

Upon further review, What I have been using for years is the standard cinch knot. What I have tied on is not a modified trilene, it's a modified cinch knot (based on where the line passes through). Well even if the line is the problem, I sure am learning a lot about knots

Uni knot is next on my list!!

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

My post on this apparently didn't... post!

Anyway, when I use braided on my trolling rods, I tie in a small swivel and then a rod-length leader of mono (usually flourocarbon these days) when it terminates at a lure. Bouncers get snapped right on the swivel. The braided-to-the-swivel knot sometimes gets a dab of superglue and the knot is always standard palomar. Super glue keeps it from slipping. I use Stren braid, but have two rods with the now unobtainable Rapala Titanium Braid which I seem to like.

Never had a knot in braided line fail yet, and love the feel.

My 2cents

 

[dingbat]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

Upon further review, What I have been using for years is the standard cinch knot. What I have tied on is not a modified trilene, it's a modified cinch knot (based on where the line passes through). Well even if the line is the problem, I sure am learning a lot about knots

Uni knot is next on my list!!

The trick is the 10 turns. Once through the eye, then 10 turns. Make sure the line is wet before pulling the knot down.

 

[tpcowfish]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

I use fireline for perch here cause no stretch ,lite bite, quick hooksets, as for bass ,iv'e lost to many lures from lack of abrasive strength, casting cranks around rocks, it doesn't last long, frays and breaks, It also floats more, and is more visible. I now use Bass Pro's Eccel mono with great results, at a good price. I don't know who makes it for them, but I havent lost a fish yet due to line [ knock on wood]. And I always use polomar knot with good result's, after polomar i tie trilene knot with tag end.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

My post on this apparently didn't... post!

Anyway, when I use braided on my trolling rods, I tie in a small swivel and then a rod-length leader of mono (usually flourocarbon these days) when it terminates at a lure.

Do yourself a favor and drop the swivel between the leader and the running line. The swivel buys you nothing other than an additional 3 points of failure. Knot1, the swivel itself and knot two. It also doesn't allow you to wind the leader onto the reel which has to be a nuisance.

I run mono top shots on all my trolling rigs. Twice the length of the rod plus 5 wraps around the reel. Use a double unit knot or a Slim Beauty on my heavier lines. No hardware to beat on the rod tip and you can wind the leader on the reel in its entirety which makes for quick breakdown and setup times.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

I would imagine that Mark is trolling spoons and similar lures making the swivel desirable.

 

[gonefishie]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

I'm sold on Berkley 100% Fluorocarbon. I don't use braid on anything other then on my frogging stick. Mono and fluoro on the rest, anything less then 8lbs is reserved for drop shotting and you just pull back the rod and reel the line in, hookset is not necessary. I saw on knot wars the berkley braid knot. I've tried it with all different lines and is the one I use for braid now. It will not break or slip, period.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

I went through the same frustrations you are having with super lines and came to the conclusion that I don't need or want to use light super lines anymore. And when I do use heavy superline, I tie a mono top shot on as dingbat was talking about, I use an albright knot for the mono-superline connection.

Lost lures, poor abrasion resistance, etc.. it wasn't worth spending that $ for me anymore. When I had superline on the reel I was apprehensive to refill and drop $10-15 respooling, with mono I don't even think about it as it only costs a buck or so off a bulk spool.

For popping the knot, I'll agree with dingbat again, wet the knot as you could be damaging the line cinching the knot down dry. Any superline knot I tie gets a 3 turn "lock knot" and then 1/8" tag end of the line melted with a lighter, have to be careful not to melt the main line though. Lock knot at the bottom of this page.

http://powerpro.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/nl/powerpro/company/using_powerpro/knots.html

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Fireline has got me frustrated!!

I would imagine that Mark is trolling spoons and similar lures making the swivel desirable.

Yup. And dingbat fishes for fish the size of a small car (from his posts I assume this) and I don't fish for stuff the size of Moby ****'s brother! So the additional points of failure don't get consideration from me- never been an issue.

The swivel I use runs right through the line guides, but the reason I don't go longer than a rod-length is JUST IN CASE I have a nice fish on and the swivel hangs up at the rod tip I can still net the thing!

The leader aids with reducing visibility, keeps the braid out of the yuck, and since I run 20# Stren Super Braid, if I get REALLY hung up I can break the leader (usually 6# or 8#) and keep most of my stuff.

Often I pre-rig the leaders with #1 black crosslocks on both ends of the leader- that way I can switch out really quickly. Flashers and cowbells get clipped right to the swivel, and the leader can just be clipped in behind that. That's another reason for the short leader- snaps won't go through the line guides very well! (Although the crosslocks hang up less when you do it by mistake.

Many pros claim, however, that they jig fish with light braid and no leader and don't have any less bites. I haven't heard anything about how often they retie....