Fire fighting Air Wars

QC

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Mar 22, 2005
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This is actually a political topic here, but I am gonna post it anyway . . . :p

Every year we evaluate and discuss, and delay deciding on new technologies for fighting our fires from the air. My favorite is the Super Scooper, which is a Canadian Seaplane Fire fighter. The unique thing about it is that it reloads by touch and go on a lake, harbor whatever. Take a look at this vid and you can hear the pilot start powering up to load just after he lands. The second one is a drop video, for some reason they always work in pairs.

Super Scooper Scoopin'

Super Scooper Dumpin'

I saw a demo of them recently being flown over my house and they are just cool, but for some reason we still haven't decided if we want to buy some. Apparently we lease them while we think about it . . .

And we also had a big bidding/testing war pitting two passenger jet conversions for big drops against each other. Apparently the DC10 won as we are using it for drops of fire retardant this week. These first shots are from a fire about two months ago.

DC10 Drop in SoCal

DC10 same fire

DC10 News Clip

And the loser. Still very impressive, but for some reason have not heard hide nor hair of this one since last year.

747 Conversion

Along with Helicopters, the Super Scoopers and the wide bodies do different jobs, and we need all of them.

The politics of some of this is blowing up right now. Apparently there were lots of assets here beginning on Sunday, but some were grounded as the Military and the Forest Service work on different radio freqs and somehow they are not compatible, so the rule requires that there is a Forestry guy/gal on board all of them. Makes sense, but of course it's Bush's fault . . . I am serious :eek:
 

aspeck

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

I agree/disagree with the forest service need to be on each air fire fighting flight. The military is trained and knows what they are doing - all they really needed was the radio, not the personel. Just different organizations trying to show who has the most stupidity, er, I mean, clout. There is a time when you have to overlook some of the "requirements" like there must be a forest service person on each air vessel ....

That said, I agree with you that we need all of the different apparatus because they all do a different job. The Super Scoopers are picking up water - there is no retardent in there, maybe a fish or two, though. They are great for a fast attack on the flames and will really slow a fire down. The wide bodies take longer to load, but they can be loaded with the suppressent with is better for containment and to stop flare-ups. And the helos are for better accuracy and harder to reach places. All have their place.
 

zoe'sdad

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

Agree with needing all three, super scoopers, helicopters and tankers. Each succeeds where the other falters. In the 6 years I lived in California I never saw the super scooper in action. Did see them parked by the fly away in Van Nuys. I guess they work well along the coast where they can pick up a lot of water quickly in the ocean and then dump it in the coastal mountains. They probably do not work as well in resevoirs nestled in the San Gabriels because of space needed to manuver. This is where the helicopters come in, they can hover over the water, load up and drop in precision over hot spots. The helicopters are limited in payload and speed though. Next are the wide body tankers. Carry the most retardand and can cover more area faster but takes longer to reload and a lot of maintence. All three working together would be a formidable force in fighting the fires.

Never got a good answer as to why the state or county never bought the two super scoopers. Always still evaluating there use.
 

Bigprairie1

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

QC
If you get a chance check out the other 'biggie' which is the 'Mars' water bomber(s). Huge plane. I think we sent down at least one to So-Cal a couple of days ago to help out with the fires. Hopefully they are being of good and effective use. There are currently only a couple in the world. They are actually a fairly old plane but they work very well and they are regarded as giant killers in the forest fire fights.
Its a serious piece of equipment it will soak a huge area in one shot.... way more than helicopters, etc (not even close). Obviously in BC forest fires are a big challenge given the forest area of the province.
It will be interesting to see the next generation of super sizers.
As well...good to hear that things are abating a bit down there.
BP
 

QC

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

zoe'sdad,

The vid of the Scooper scoopin', is a local reservoir. I've seen them coming from Long Beach Harbor to the San Gabe's too, you are right though, not a whole bunch of spots long enough.

BP1,

Yeah, I know of the Mars. I just hadn't seen one here so I left it out. Awesome plane!
 
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tashasdaddy

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

there is a company in Louisana, that does the conversion, 80% of their business goes to other countries. one of my inlaws works for them. goes to europe, asia, to service these.
 

JB

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

It seems to be an unconvertable feature of human nature that we (the voting public) never allow the spending of bux to be well equipped or prepared for the "hundred year" disasters, blame politicians when the disaster overwhelms our resources and planning, then go right back to refusing to support the costs of preparation and planning for the next one.
 

mike176

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Feb 18, 2007
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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

Military and the Forest Service may work on different radio freqs but an Emergency Deployable, Interoperable Communications System would fix that we have 9 of them in Florida from a grant through the department of homeland security. The EDICS system was deployed for katrina so all the diffrent agencys could comunitcate. I'm sure there has to be a few out west. Can't blame it on Bush the feds offer a solution, but the state may not have put in for the grant. The fact is the feds offer a ton of grant money for public safety, its often the fault of local politicians being uninformed or unintrested.
 

puddle jumper

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

Those water bomers protect our forests up here in BC. I think our fire fighting
crews could not live with out them. Thay are impresive to watch. Between them and the spoter plane,that is some cool flying.
 

JRJ

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

As I understand it, the Feds haven't certified the jets, while the State has. Safety issues, as far as airframe age and engine hours come into play, along with the possibility of underlying issues that I leave to the imagination. Simple incompetence being just one. A friend of mine is an air boss and I'll get his spin on it. Glad that things are looking up down there. Good luck and I hope the 20/20 hind-site doesn't detract from the actual sacrifice and heroics of many many dedicated folks.
 

JB

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Re: Fire fighting Air Wars

The Martin Mars is a wonderful aircraft. Designed for transporting large numbers of troops (she would hold 400 Marines) in the Pacific they arrived too late.

The Navy (Air Transport Squadron 2) operated them between the west coast (Alameda NAS) and Hawaii until their squadron, VR-2, was decommisioned about 1954. I remember the last flight arriving in Pearl Harbor sometime in late 1954. What a huge and graceful plane!.
 
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