Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Mark42

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Oct 8, 2003
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I want to paint the hull of my boat. It will see both fresh and salt water, but will spend most of its life on the trailer in my back yard. Probably will not spend more than one or two days in the water straight, and no more than 10 to 15 times a year. <br /><br />I want to paint the hull white using a one or two part epoxy or polyurathane paint. From the searches and reading I have done here, I don't think I need an anti-fouling paint. <br /><br />What I need to know is this: Can I use the "top" paints on the hull? When the product is listed as top or bottom, do they mean above/below the water line, or is top only for the horizontal surfaces?<br /><br />I am confused.
 

Blk-n-Blu

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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Mark, For the amount of time you will have the boat in the water I would not paint at all. Once painted it can become a real PIA repainting every year or every other. Just My $0.02
 

Mark42

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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Blk-n-Blu,<br /><br />I forgot to mention the reason I want to paint is because of the many, many scratches and gouges in the finish of the hull. I am filling them with white Marine-Tex. The factory finish was a creamy white, and a very low luster gel coat. So trying to match the color and gloss of the original finish would be more headache than its worth. Plus, most gel coat repair systems I read say not to apply over epoxy.<br /><br />So that is why I want paint. It will give a nice even color to the whole hull without the problems of gel coat patching. <br /><br />Unless there is another alternative I have not found yet. I am new to boating. What do you think?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Mark.
 

phatmanmike

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Oct 24, 2003
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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

mark, i painted the hull of my 14 foot aluminum boat , that is mostly on my trailer, but still spends the night at islands and such, with topside paint... it wont hurt a bit, have at it<br /><br />m ikey
 

ThomWV

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Dec 19, 2003
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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Mark,<br /><br />I want to show you a before and after picture of what we did over last winter. It sounds like we were in exactly the same fix you are. What got me moved to action was we hit a piling (long story) and knocked a good sized hole in the hull. I did the repair, no problem there, but there were a lot of other placed that needed attention too. <br /><br />Before (in progress really):<br />
profile1.JPG
<br /><br />After I got all of the stuff repaired (almost all of it was done with epoxy mixed with West System's #404 high density filler we painted. I used Awl Grip, which is a 2-part paint. We primed with 4 coats and painted 4 coats of color. <br /><br />Here is what it looked like after the repairs and in their primer:<br />
profilenew.JPG
<br /><br /><br />We sanded between each coat. I was more than simply pleased with the result. The final coats of paint (above the waterline paint) went on a lot thinner and used a lot less paint than the primer. Oh, and all of this was done with a roller, it wasn't sprayed.<br /><br />After:<br />
coat4.JPG
<br /><br />On those paints. It is my understanding that unless a paint is capable of being submerged they will call it topside paint. If they are held constantly under water they will peel. The stuff I use, even though obviously just above the water line its wet all the time we are out there, is topside paint.<br /><br />Mostly when people think of bottom paints what they are refering to are actually waterproof paints that also have chemical means to fight agains marine growth, the typical antifouling paints. The thing is that as hard as I looked no one I could find was making a simple paint, with out any exotic metals, or poisons, to kill off barnicals, just color to do the bottom with after repairs. Then I stumbled on somthing.<br /><br />Awl Grip makes a white paint that is sort of a super primer, but its water proof. Its actually made for use as a barrier coat to stop blistering of glass in boats that are left in the water. Think of it as sort of a primer for bottom paints but one that happens to also look good and is white. I bought a gallon of it but I haven't done my bottom yet. I wanted to get the hull in the water so I could get a good mark on the waterline, paint a boot stripe, and then use the barrier coat on everything below that. I haven't done that yet and may not get around to it until the fall.<br /><br />Anyway the stuff is called Hull Guard, D8024 and its only sold in gallon kits which come with a quart of catalizer as well. I don't remember what I had to pay for it but it was no where near as bad as the primer ($150 a gallon) or the topside paint ($300 a gallon).<br /><br />Thom
 

Mark42

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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Thom,<br /><br />Thanks so much for taking the time to put that excellent reply together. It's good to see what others have done and the results from similar projects. Your paint job came out great. I'll look into those products and hopefully I can get the same results. <br /><br />I noticed while researching paints that every paint is different, and the directions/application needs to be read carefully because they all seem to have their own do's and dont's. Everything seems to get more involved when dealing with boats then it does with homes and cars!<br /><br />Thanks again,<br /><br />Mark
 

ThomWV

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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Mark,<br /><br />Let me make this very very strong suggestion to you at the outset. Whichever paint you decide on, and I would certainly recommend the Awl Grip, make sure you follow their instructions to the letter and go ahead and commit yourself to their "system" to do the entire job. Don't substitute primers, or thinners, or catalysts, or anything else. I even went so far as to use Awl Grip tack rags before the final coat. I would say the same thing no matter which producer's product you end up with. I would also remind you that no coat of paint can ever be any better than the surface underlieing it, so prep work is everything.<br /><br />By the way, on the use of that barrier coat for a painted bottom. A gallon of it will put a couple of coats on any three boats that are trailered, easily. They only sell it in the kits and its enough to do several bottoms, so give that some thought. Also, when I was thinking about trying this stuff I went ahead and called Awl Grips tech line and simply asked if it was suitable for the purpose. The fellow I talked to told my quite honestly that the company did not develop the paint for that purpose and could not recommend it for that purpose (and I told him it was on a roller trailered boat), but that in fact they were aware of many many cases where it had been used that way and they were not aware of any failure of the paint in that application. In other words, they couldn't guarantee it but they knew a lot of folks were doing it and it was working just fine.<br /><br />As it is I let the top coat run way down below the waterline while we were painting because I really didn't know exactly where the water line was. The boat has spent 23.6 hours in the water with the new paint so some of that paint has been submerged for that long - but not all at once. This was over the course of 4 day trips, two in a local lake and two ocean trips. I only know because we put a new engine on the boat too and it has a new hourmeter. We are just like you, mostly day trips with an occasional couple of days in the water. In the fall we usually rent a house on the water, with a dock, for a week and the boat stays in the water then too of course, but that is the longest continous stretch it would be wet. I think the Barrier Coat paint is the answer.<br /><br />Heck, why didn't I think of this before. You want to split the gallon I have here? I can look and see how much I paid for it and split it with you. Right now its unopened, both the paint and the catalyst. Take a look at the Awl Grip application manual (available on line) and see what you think.<br /><br />Thom
 

Mark42

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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Thom,<br /><br />Thanks for the offer to split a can of paint. I may take you up on that later this summer. If you like, send me an e-mail so I can get in touch at painting time. Send to mjmullen4@yahoo.com<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Mark.
 

ThomWV

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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Sure<br /><br />tandjlm@westco.net.***x Take off the dott.***x part. By the way, I'm leaving to go fishing today and won't be back until some time next week.<br /><br />Thom
 

MrBill

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Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

Mark - Do not use "top" or "top-side" paint on your hull, especially any portion of the hull which is routinely submerged. To most effectively go over Marine-tex use a two-part Gel Kote. If your hull is white the job will be easiest. Sounds like you're not going paint just covering hull and Marine-Tex patches with one consistent covering. <br /><br />Over fiberglass, Gel Kote (no intention to indicate a particular brand) will adhere and not fail. I mix to slow the chemical hardening process and thin with acetone for easy flow, and paint on with a brush or roller. Good prep is required, but gives a truly professional finish. It is sold in a few colors but can be tinted to match...before adding the hardner. Two or three coats may be required to go over Marine Tex patches depending on color and consistency of the gel.
 

Speakrdude

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Feb 25, 2004
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942
Re: Explain to me the difference between top and bottom paints.

I am also the point of painting the bottom of my "project" boat now as well. I, like Thom, have painted the top and sides with Awlgrip and love the shine. I dont care for the fact of it being "non-repairable" according to the mfg. If you have a sag, run, or a bug that just wouldn't leave, your kinda screwed. From what I am told, do not sand the paint and expect to bring the shine shine back because it is part of the surface. anyway.... What has everyone decided about the bottom paint? My boats bottom has a huge amount of ugly, built-up, blue bottom paint. <br />I am in the process of removing with Interlus 299E stripper and revealing the original white gelcoat. I would like to paint the same "off white" that I sprayed the sides with. Thom- I will split the cost with you on that gallon if the offer still stands or if anyone has any other suggestion. I cannot bear to paint with bottom paint since the bottom will only be in fresh water occasionally. <br /> More progress pics....<br /> http://community.webshots.com/album/111063375YvUCZM/3 <br />Jim
 
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