Evinrude 2HP mate runs but dies at weird times

[jimmwaller]

Hi all-
I have a 2hp Evinrude Mate. It seems to have no problem starting up initially, but there is a weird issue. It will sputter out and die, but it happens after completely different amounts of time every time. Sometimes, it will run for 2 minutes and then sputter and die, and sometimes it will run perfectly for 30 minutes and then die. Sometimes, rarely, it will run for as long as I need and then I shut it off.

When it dies, sometimes it starts right back up and then runs for another indeterminate amount of time. Had it out last week, and it died after 5 minutes, started it back up, died in like 30 seconds, started back up and then it ran for like 45 minutes, and then i started it back up and it died in like 10 minutes a few times and then I gave up.

Other times, I take it out, and after it dies, it just won't start back up. For times like these, I keep a little starter fluid with me. One time I had it out, ran great for 30 minutes, and then it died and wouldn't start back up without starter fluid. If I sprayed fluid in the intake, it would start right up but then die after a few minutes and then need more fluid to start up.

I have tried all of the basic stuff, I think. I cleaned the carb thoroughly (actually took it off and cleaned all the passages, took the mix screws out, cleaned the needle/seat inlet, etc. Also tried different mix screw positions, but i also kind of figure that a) this isn't really the issue, and b) if I set them to default, it should at least run pretty well?

This is driving me insane. Normally, when outboards run and then die, I suspect fuel starvation, condenser maybe if they have one, heat, etc. But this one.... my impeller seems to be fine and the engine is misting out the holes, I did clean the carb and the fuel flow seems to be fine. If it was fuel starvation, how would it die after a few minutes and then start right back up and then be able to run well for 45 minutes sometimes? Same with heat. If it was overheating, wouldn't it run until it overheated and then not be able to start back up until it cooled?

Any help at all or any guidance on things to check would be really appreciated.

thanks!

 

[jimmwaller]

Sorry to bump this up, but I'm still having the same issues and figured I'd been long enough that people wouldn't mind

Since my last post, re-cleaned the carb, cleaned the petcock and filter, verified that the fuel line wasn't clogged at all and that I have good fuel flow, and took apart the lower unit to make sure nothing was like jamming the prop or anything, cleaned out the tank vent, and put in a brand new plug.

Still no clue why it runs well sometimes and why it dies randomly. Any thoughts, no matter how unlikely, would be really appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Vic.S]

Saw your original post... could not think of anything you had not.

If it dies I'd suspect a fuel or carb problem.


If it suddenly drops dead i suspect an ignition problem. Conventional coil/ points/ condenser igntion isn't it. Condition of coil??

but you dont say the year or quote the model number


Tried new plug?

 

[jimmwaller]

Shoot. Sorry.... I thought I had put it in there. It's a 1980! Thanks!

 

[Bosunsmate]

Worn crankcase/crankshaft seals perhaps

 

[gayle23]

I had a similar problem with that same motor. It turns out a small niece of the fiber packing washers for the fast adjustment needle had broken off and was floating around in that small chamber, sometimes blocking it, and at other times not blocking it.

 

[Fleetwin]

A few things:

1. DON'T use starting fluid. It has no lubricity and washes down the cylinder bore. Not good.

2. I assume this has integral fuel tank. There may be something floating around in it. I once found an oil bottle cap in one. Same symptoms as yours.

3. Is the coil cracked?

 

[jimmwaller]

thanks for the tip about the fluid. I didn't realize it was so damaging.

Checked the fuel tank, no debris. When you ask if the coil is cracked, you're actually asking if there's like a crack in the coil, or is that slang for something? If it was cracked, I'd physically see like a crack in the plastic shroud that surrounds ignition coils?

thanks

 

[Fleetwin]

thanks for the tip about the fluid. I didn't realize it was so damaging.

Checked the fuel tank, no debris. When you ask if the coil is cracked, you're actually asking if there's like a crack in the coil, or is that slang for something? If it was cracked, I'd physically see like a crack in the plastic shroud that surrounds ignition coils?

thanks

Correct. The coating on the coil(s) can crack due to age. When that happens, they can fail at odd times.

 

[jimmwaller]

coil doesn't seem to be cracked. I've taken the engine out a few times over the last few days... patterns are starting to emerge. As I said, sometimes, it'll run fine for a long time, but more often than not, it runs for almost exactly a minute and then dies.
Interestingly, it also seems to die when I give it full throttle. I'm suspecting a carb problem, but when cleaning the carb, I noticed that it was a single jet. I would expect it to die more often at lower speeds if a single jet has carb issues, right?

I'm guessing that if I fix the issue where it dies at full throttle, I'll also fix the dying issue. Any thoughts on carb issues that cause stalling at WOT?

thanks!

 

[Vic.S]

coil doesn't seem to be cracked. I've taken the engine out a few times over the last few days... patterns are starting to emerge. As I said, sometimes, it'll run fine for a long time, but more often than not, it runs for almost exactly a minute and then dies.
Interestingly, it also seems to die when I give it full throttle. I'm suspecting a carb problem, but when cleaning the carb, I noticed that it was a single jet. I would expect it to die more often at lower speeds if a single jet has carb issues, right?

I'm guessing that if I fix the issue where it dies at full throttle, I'll also fix the dying issue. Any thoughts on carb issues that cause stalling at WOT?

thanks!

The often repeated 1 minute running time make me think its a fuel flow problem.

Runs until the bowl is MT then dies.

float and or needle valve sticking.??? If it has a soft tip needle there should be a little clip linking it to the float arm .... check!

Checked tank vent presumably?

 

[lindy46]

You didn't say if you installed a carb kit?? If not, I'd get the kit and go through the carb again. There is a gasket on the main throttle high speed nozzle which could be worn or missing. You say the carb only has a single jet? That model should have both adjustable slow and high speed needles. Maybe somebody changed the carb? If it has a fixed high speed jet, you need to make sure that is clean. The orifice plug requires a special tool to remove. If you don't have the tool, you may get by with soaking the whole bowl in carb cleaner and then blowing it out thoroughly.

 

[Vic.S]

You didn't say if you installed a carb kit?? If not, I'd get the kit and go through the carb again. There is a gasket on the main throttle high speed nozzle which could be worn or missing. You say the carb only has a single jet? That model should have both adjustable slow and high speed needles. Maybe somebody changed the carb? If it has a fixed high speed jet, you need to make sure that is clean. The orifice plug requires a special tool to remove. If you don't have the tool, you may get by with soaking the whole bowl in carb cleaner and then blowing it out thoroughly.

I suspect the Op is referring to the high speed nozzle, #9 in the diagram below, when he talks of a "single jet" but where is this "orifice plug" which requires a special tool for its removal you mention ?

He refers to the mixture adjustment screws in the plural so presumably his carb has both.

 

[lindy46]

Vic - That's why I asked him if maybe the carb was replaced with one with a fixed high speed jet. The correct carb for that motor is the one in your diagram, but when he said it had a "single jet" that made me wonder if the carb had been replaced. I suspect he didn't install a kit, just cleaned it, and there-lies his problem.

 

[oldboat1]

think it's a fuel issue too. Guessing, but thinking maybe the carb vents are even more important with gravity flow from an integral tank. (bottom line would be carb kit/cleaning to resolve.) Might have been mentioned, but expansion plug should be removed and replaced and passages blown out.

 

[jimmwaller]

Hi all-
I don't think my carb has been replaced... It has a low and high speed adjustment knob, and I was in fact referring the high speed nozzle when I said it was a single jet. So sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize that the adjustment needles could also be referred to as jets. But my carb is exactly the one in the diagram, with the single high speed nozzle and the dual low/high adjustment knobs.

I took the carb apart and cleaned it as best as I could again yesterday. I know for sure the high-speed nozzle is clear and I'm getting good fuel flow. I also checked the compression and I'm getting about 110 pSI.

I do have a few questions. First, I'm happy to rebuild the carb, but I don't know what model it is. Could I trouble someone for a link to the rebuild kit?

I also don't know what the orifice plug is. I'm guessing it's #18 in the diagram? Or it's something else?

Where are the carb vents? I'm guessing that's an easy first thing to check, but I didn't see any vents. When I cleaned the carb, I basically blew carb cleaner through every passage I could see, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if I missed a vent or something.

I also double checked that I have the float needle clip thing that was mentioned. It seems to work fine. Can't really test as I can't get flow without the bowl on there, but it sure seems like as the float goes up the needle goes up and should plug things just fine.

Thanks again for all the input/advice/etc. Awesome.

 

[oldboat1]

using the diagram in Vic's post (#13), #6 is an expansion plug up at the top of the carb. That's part of the low speed system. The plug/cap needs to come out to fully clean the carb (blow out the openings underneath, carb cleaner works. very fine wire is good). With the little cover off (little domed aluminum cap), you will also see how the low speed needle seats, and can check its operation. Get a carb kit (should be same as the one for the 3 hp and many other small OMCs) -- really need the parts to get the carb in shape (including that expansion plug). Better to just get a kit and do it all. (That #9 brass nozzle/jet comes out, and should be soaked and blown out with the rest of the disassembled carb parts (metal parts). Get a kit with a new float if you can.

 

[Vic.S]

You will find the parts list that goes with the diagram I posted on the BRP parts website http://epc.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E&s1=4aa54a54-1af6-4fdc-aece-c6a497ecf7c9

All the parts are named and given their full part numbers there.

There is no part shown called an "orifice plug" so I don't know what lindy 46 is referring to! #18 is the needle valve assembly

#8 is a lead shot which blanks of a passage . Likewise #13. To fully clean the carb you should remove these as well as the expansion plug #6. Replacements should be in the kit.

The purpose of the clip on the float needle is to ensure that the needle is pulled away from its seat when the float drops.

The symptoms all point towards a fuel flow problem but it might be an ignition problem. I'd suggest checking the spark but since it always restarts Ok that is likely to be OK

Do you have the correct spark plug in there, Champion RJ6C ( or J6C) correctly gapped at 0.030". Have you tried a new plug?

 

[jimmwaller]

so, I've checked a number of online parts distributers and they all say that the carb rebuild kit is unavailable.

Anyone have a kit they want to sell? or know of a better distributor? I just googled "evinrude parts" and checked the first few places that came up.

Or, is the 1980 2hp carb rebuild kit the same as the 1978 2hp rebuild kit? different part numbers, but the '78 seems to be in stock.

thanks for all the replies so far. I'm in the middle of re-cleaning the carb, hopefully it makes a difference in case I can't find the rebuild kit....

 

[oldboat1]

If it were me, I might look under model number E2RCSM, maybe carb kit part number 398532. I would try places like NAPA, and look for cross referencing in their marine catalogue. You can buy individual carb parts for that motor, if the above model number is correct. What is your model number? Sure it's an '80?

Try iBoats. Try googling your year and horsepower. Try googling the above model number. Try the hyperlink Vic shows, above. Try an outboard shop or marina, something with an Evinrude or Johnson sign. Try eBay with a verified model number, or part number, or year and horsepower, with "carb kit".

pretty sure it can be done.