evinrude 225 wont rev out?

[7894steve]

i just bought a 96 or 99 evinrude 225 form a guy in nc. i whent down thinking it was a clean, fresh water use low hr 96 225. when i got there it was clean and used in fresh water and seemed to run good ( no noises) but then he told me the previos owner replaced the powerhead in 99 but was unsure if it was a dressed or undressed block. anyway he assured me it was used very little by an anal guy and was a good motor. we took it out and as i stated it sounded good then we hit the throttle and is stumbled a bit but no big deal it made it to 4000. we were cruisin around 4 grand an i told him to give it full throttle, he did and it stubled again for quite a bit until if finaly got over it and got up to about 5500-6000. we took off the silencer cover to make sure it was pumpimg fuel into all of the cyl ( the same problem i had with my 95 200 which leaned out and eat a piston). it was throwing good fuel in all cyl and from a dead stop had no problem geting up to rpm. his boat was a 19' key west. no doubt lighter than mine, a 1986 21' chris craft cc. anyway i figured it was just a tuning problem and i liked the motor so i bought it and put it on my boat. i checked the timing, 18 degrees just like it should be and i changed the plugs to ngk. it seems to run fine but when i give it full throttle it falls on its face and wont go over 4500 on my boat with the cover on. if i take off the cover and the silencer it will rev to 5000 ok and if i trim it it will go to 5500. i know it should do that with know problem maybe even more with the cover and silencer on as my blown up 200 turned 5500 on the same boat with the same prop and this one is supposedly newer and bigger then the 200. i still think the 200 had more power even with a bad cyl.im thinking it may be too rich or i have a plug or 2 that wont fire under extreme throttle.possibly a bad coil or even the brain? anyway its not like i am going to race it and more than likely will keep it at 4500 or lower but i know its not running correctly and i want to fix it. can anyone give me any advise on what to check next. thanks steve

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

the best place to start is at the beginning, can you get the model number off the engine block welch plug.

Then , if you didn't do this when buying it,

compression test.
spark gap test set to 7/16th inch gap.
Check lower gear oil. Use new seals on drain screws.
Pull prop check for fishing line, grease and replace prop.

If you don't know the service history already, order kits and rebuild all the carbs as this could very well be a fuel problem.

I would do all that to baseline it before trying any troubleshooting under load.

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

i did 2 comp checks before i bought it, cold the top 4 were 118 and the bottom 2 were 112, warm all the #s droped by 8-10 psi. gear oil is good, prop is fine, nothing in it or under it. i am hesitant to go into the carbs because i found out they can get internal cracks which i think is what cost me my other motor. on my 200 i checked all the carbs out and they looked fine but it still leaned out. i think it is a possibility i created the problem by taking off the carbs and remounting them( several times) but i am not sure.the model # on the welch plug, can you explain exactly were this is, is it the freeze plug on the top back of the motor? all that being said and every thing is fine with the acception of going into the carbs have you got any ideas what could be doing this. thanks steve

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

i forgot to mention, i got new ngk plugs gapped at 30 thou, i did a spark test and they all look good, clean blue/ white spark no yellow or orange.what do you think. steve

 

[clemsonfor]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

The problem sounds like a carb issue, plugged jets or inccorect float height or needle and seats. Cold have a plug not firing. Run it and look for differences in plug color after a WOT run that will point you to certain cyls. Use should use the correct champion plugs in it those that know reccomend this so i have gone along with it. Pull the carbs and rebuild them, just dont over torque them and bust the plastic

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

ditto all that.
Read up on how to rebuild carbs, see the FAQ files at the top of this forum, do it right, run wire through the jets etc, new kits.
If you overtighten the carb bowls they distort, leak or crack, just tighten them and they're fine. If they DO crack order new ones.

and NGK plugs are a known problem.

did you get the model number yet?

do a spark gap test?
Gap testers are sold at auto stores, less than $10.
Gap must be almost 1/2 inch and spark should be blue, all plugs out and grounded.

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

i did a spark test by taking the plugs out and grounding them at there .030 gap and they looked good, but i will go and by the tool since i also think that can be the problem. as far as the model #, i dont know exactly were to look on this motor. there is a tag on the back of the motor and i will post it later today but maybe someone can tell me were to look. on the back of the 95 200 there is a freeze plug that has #s stamped in it but they dont look like model #s . i dont see that on the 225, in fact there is no freeze plug at all on the back of this motor . maybe im not looking in the correct spot. if i cant find an ignition problem i guess i will have to go into the carbs. steve

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

i did a plug test before i bought the motor, i had him run it at full throttle for about 20 seconds and then shut it off (no idle) and it checked out fine all the plugs looked good, a light chocolate brown. the top cyl were a little lighter but i was expecting to find a black or dark plug but there were none. this test was done with the champion plugs which i dont like. i have problems with them in the past.what are the known problems with the ngk? steve

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

ok this is the best i can do to try and identify this motor.i found this information on a tag on the back of the block.
omc outboard marine corporation
sn- nc0022328
conforms to 2000 epa regulations
tcw3 oil
fuel unleaded gasoline 87 octane
spark plug QL78YC .030
for use on 98-2000 200-225hp
part # 484416
this is the most inportant i thinl but i cant read it all,
engine family n or y? pxm0183210
the n or y may be somthing else maybe someone can tell me if i am on the right track with this and if there is another place i should be looking. i bought a spark gap testor and went thru all the plugs a few time widening the gap to find the weakest one, wich ended up being #1 cyl and after i looked at it close i saw the wire was a little chewed up on the bottom of the boot. i took one off my other motor and i am going to test it out tonight to see if ther are any spark leaks anyware.ill post the results after the test today. if anyone has any more ideas feel free to let me know. thanks steve

 

[clemsonfor]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

look on the motor support ( the part that bolts to the transom) it will be on a plate that says model #. This plate is if standing behind the boat looking at the motor on the left side of the plate bolted to the transom

let us know about the plugs

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

the model # on the transom plate is incorrect as it is for the old 96 motor and has no relavence to the 99 motor it was replaced with.did you see any of the info i got off the block itself and if so does that tell you anything? a far as the plugs go i tried everything i could, i tested the spark gap and found the weakest one but it was still a big sprk over 5/8" and it was still blue. when i did the plug test a wot it told me nothing, no wet,white or dark plugs at all but it was still fumbleing at full throttle and could not get past 4500. i even went as far as disconecting 1 plug at a time and putting an old plug on the wire and grounding it to see how it would run on 5 and if there was one plug that made no difference but after i checked them all it was always the same thing it would get up to 4400 with 1 not firing. no difference. do you think there is a posibility the brain could be bad and drop a plug or all plugs intermitently at wot?

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

Ok so you get good spark on all holes?
Doesn't matter that some are better than others, half an inch spark is definately great.

So the cyl that makes no difference when the sparkplug wire is pulled has a dirty carb, and theres no fuel or oil going to that one.
(assuming compression is ok).

Rebuild that carb, do them all really.
Your fear of touching the carbs could very well blow the engine.

To discover the yr of the engine you can write down some part numbers such as the power pack, starter motor and rectifier ,
google the part numbers and note the yr they fit.

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

you must have misunderstood the last post when i was doing the spark test disconecting the wires) they all did the exact same thing. my thinking was if i tested any other plug but the bad one it would in theory be running on just 4 cyl and be very noticable until i got to the bad one then it would run on 5 but i never did find one that didnt make any difference. it wouldnt go past 4400 that way when i disconected any of the 6 plugs. and as far as the carbs go they are all throwing good fuel, there is no obvious bad one based on visual inspection and by using a timing light in all the carbs to look for good fuel atomization. steve

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

ok so they all have good spark.

the worst coil still throws a 5/8th inch spark so they are all good.

You're getting good fuel flow thru the carbs, then it comes down to checking that it doesn't drop spark under load, (when it bogs down)

and the primer or choke isn't leaking and flooding the intake with fuel.
Look with a flashlight for leaks around the cold start injector. Make sure the red lever is in the correct position, its all basic stuff but you never know.

also, you sure about that timing advance?,
I thought max advance was 20deg. Its not much but...

also, the timing wheel on top of the flywheel, under the cover...
put your timing light on that and make sure it only indicates the cylinder being tested with no double flashing.

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

i checked the spark for double fire and it is fine, only one flash on 18 degrees. i have a shop manual and for 96 -200 it call for 17-19 , 97-99 it calls for 18 so i am dead nuts in between the 2. and since i still am not sure if this block came with everything on it or it all came from the 96 i am making sure i have no contradictions with specs. i checked the primer soleniod and there are no leaks and it is in the run position but it does act like it is running fat since it has an easier time getting up to rpm without the carb cover on, in effect leaning it out. but all other plug tests have proved that theory inacurate as there was never a dark, black,wet, fould or even a white plug when i checked. i am leaning more to the idea the the spark is droping out of 1 or more cyl at wot. do you know how i can check this. i am also leaning more that this was a fully dressed block in 99. its running # 74 main jets, does that sound about right for a 99 225? steve

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

i forgot to mention i have another brain from my 95 200 which i think worked fine on that motor before it hatched. does anyone know if this would fit on the 99 225 with no issues. if so maybe i can give that a shot and see if it works. steve

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

sorry i looked up 200hp for the timing spec but i checked the 225 and the are exactly the same.

 

[jonesg]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

yeh a timing light at WOT will show if its dropping spark, safer with 2 people doing that.

You should switch to champion plugs, NGK are a known problem.

go to the evinrude elec part catalog and compare part numbers for the powerpack you want to try from the other engine.

http://shop2.evinrude.com/ext/index.aspx?s1=7e963ee4948515635966c1fa0462c4e9

 

[7894steve]

Re: evinrude 225 wont rev out?

hey, while were still talking about this motor can you tell me the difference if any between the 200 and the 225 besides the carbs. and can i put 200hp carbs and throttle plate on the 225 without any problems.