Everything is apart and....

[1997StingRay190]

Previous post's would let you know I bought boat (1997 Merc4.3 and Alpha 1 Gen 2) with a cracked block.

I got the old engine out and the new engine on Saturday. While the outdrive was off I saw I need a new yoke, joints, gimball bearing, 3 bellows, shift shaft seals, carrier assembly, anodes, and I think thats it.

What am I missing here? I want to do this once... the right way!

I have the engine out, the outdrive apart, the interior and carpet out - basically trying to go through the whole thing and make it right so I dont have to F with it at all this summer (except oil change if I'm lucky enough to get out that much).

Does anyone know what size bolts match the bellhousing to the block? Also how many if possible. Another bolt question. I'm thinking the bolts that hold the brackets to the block/heads are the post's with the bolt welded about 1/3 of the way down, which way do these insert? I hate to even ask these questions, but I've never torn an engine down and although I thought I was being careful I guess there was some degree of haphazardness.

Thanks for any info anyone can give.
Sean

 

[1997StingRay190]

Re: Everything is apart and....

A couple pix of some brackets that were rusted pretty bad. I thought I had to get new ones, but a few hours with the vice, angle grinder with wire brush, and some paint and here's the results if anyone cares. Much cheaper than new brackets I think.

 

[1997StingRay190]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Can someone please tell me why I can't just soak these in some of that rust dissolving stuff from Lowes and re/use them? Sorry ahead of time for the ignorance here...

 

[ken_23434]

Re: Everything is apart and....

I hope it's not against forum rules to link to another site...

http://www.mercruiserparts.com

The site above gives you the option to look up parts "with pictures". You will need to go through a bunch of menu items: mercruiser, v-6, year ... not sure how many categories. But eventually they will have it broken down to serial number or year ranges for your specific motor. Once you get that far they will have categories like: alternator, starter, cylinder heads, engine block, engine mounting ...

Just click on the engine category you have a question about and a picture will show up with an exploded view of that section of the motor. Below will be a table with the item #, part #, price, and DESCRIPTION. Many times, that description field will tell you the size of the fasteners. Plus, the pictures can help you "remember" if it was a stud or a bolt that went in a particular location.

 

[ken_23434]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Can someone please tell me why I can't just soak these in some of that rust dissolving stuff from Lowes and re/use them? Sorry ahead of time for the ignorance here...

Those are the U-Joints. Inside the cap at each end of the (+) will be about 2 dozen small needle bearings. Chances are that those bearings and their mating surfaces are all rusted also. Bearings like smooth surfaces to roll on. Otherwise, they will quickly fail.

Read the ---Adults Only--- sticky at the top of the forum. There is a thread linked in there with part #'s for U-Joints from your local auto-store. I picked up some at the local Pepboys for $8 something each. You would probably spend as much buying the rust dissolving stuff. You should easily be able to find a pair for $30 or under. Fix it right the first time.

 

[jam1ej20]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Looking good stingray, I'm in the exact same process myself and can't wait to get it all back together. I'm pretty sure you were referring to soaking the yoke and not the u-joints themselves. I'm afraid that I can only speculate as to why you would want a new yoke here. You definitely don't want to lose anything on the mating surface of the u-joint due to this being a pressed fit. Other than that, I don't see why you couldn't if everything else is in order.
-As far as forgetting anything, replace the shift cable and water hose while you're doing the bellows and be sure to pressure test that drive for other bad seals. Might as well change the impeller in the drive leg too if you haven't already. One last thing, check for rot in the boat. My stringers were wasted. Best of luck!

 

[1997StingRay190]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Ken thanks. Both of those reply's and links are just what I need to get me back on the water in the least amount of time and with as little cursing, head scratching, and brain farting possible!

So I just need two universal joints and hit the two yokes and socket center (exploded parts display hard at work ) with the some rust removal stuff if I want, or I need to replace rusty yokes and socket center? See http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...=100&bdesc=DRIVESHAFT+HOUSING+AND+DRIVE+GEARS item 10 and 13 if in case your not sure which ones I'm talking about.

This forums is great, thanks again.
Sean

 

[1997StingRay190]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Looking good stingray, I'm in the exact same process myself and can't wait to get it all back together. I'm pretty sure you were referring to soaking the yoke and not the u-joints themselves. I'm afraid that I can only speculate as to why you would want a new yoke here. You definitely don't want to lose anything on the mating surface of the u-joint due to this being a pressed fit. Other than that, I don't see why you couldn't if everything else is in order.
-As far as forgetting anything, replace the shift cable and water hose while you're doing the bellows and be sure to pressure test that drive for other bad seals. Might as well change the impeller in the drive leg too if you haven't already. One last thing, check for rot in the boat. My stringers were wasted. Best of luck!

Good info thank Jam and good luck with your project!
Okay, so shift cable and water hose too. The pump in the lower half only has 45 minutes on it, and from this season too. Can you tell me if this kit has the water house you are talking about please? http://www.sterndrive.cc/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=9A-108&Category_Code=106TA
I've already bought this kit, but it only came with 1 hose, do I need more or other hoses?

Is the shift cable something I should be able to tackle on my own if I'm doing the aforementioned repairs on my own?

How do I tell if my stringers are okay? Any suggestions on places to purchase new boat carpet and the glue used to help keep it in place?

Many thanks!
Sean

 

[superpop]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Just replace the u-joints, the yokes are fine, I would clean them up and paint them before replacing the joints though. As for what else to do, replace all gaskets and seals including the front and rear main seal. Check for rust around the crank where it makes contact with the seals, if rusted the crank can chew up the seals and you will have oil leaks. Paint the bilge. I would also closely inspect that coupler as it looked pretty rusted. give it a complete tune up and throw it all back together. Easy as pie.

 

[jam1ej20]

Re: Everything is apart and....

You are good on the water hose I was referring to with that kit. Shift cable won't be a problem if you can tackle everything else you've mentioned. It's just the cable that runs through the little shift cable bellows. The manual steps you through the replacement. As for checking the stringers, you can take a core sample by drilling into a few places and examining the wood that comes out on the drill bit. Be sure to seal the drill holes back up with resin or something to keep water out if all is well. The wood shouldn't be wet or soft. Best of luck!

 

[ziggy]

Re: Everything is apart and....

not to create more work for you, but ya should probably go look at the driven gear yoke. the yoke that disappears into the drive. you have signs of water intrusion into the bellows. sounds like your convinced to replace the ujoints, that's good. but water also can effect the yoke. the ft. seal of the drive keeps the gear lub in the drive. it don't keep water out of the drive, since there ain't supposed to be any water in that area. assuming water penetrates the drive. it rusts the yoke just like the ujoints. the ft. seal of the drive don't like rideing on a rusty surface and will soon eat up that seal. gear lub leaks out then. it's not a simple task to R&R that yoke but ya should proably go look at it. i would be concerened. i had water intrusion into my bellows, the rust was much less than yours. this is my drive gear yoke.

this part is cleaned up from the rust. like i said, it was much less rust than you have. you can see in my pic right where the seal rides at. the surface was rust eaten and ruff to the feel after clean up. it got replaced. which is not as simple as it sounds. read your s/m for how to do the deed. you'll need some pretty serious (mercruser specialty + real mech. tools, like an inch lbs torque wrench that will measure between 4-10 inch lbs) tools to do the deed. good luck..

 

[1997StingRay190]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Great info guys, I was planning on some work but man, I've got my hands full for another week or so it looks like (maybe can bust everything out this weekend if I'm lucky).

I was planning on treating both yokes, but I didn't even begin to think about removing the driven yoke - guess its time to hit up the local shop for some tools for the weekend. Thanks guys and keep the ideas coming... please! I just don't want to have to be doing this stuff twice, I'm sure just about everyone on this forum can appreciate that.

Thanks,
Sean

 

[MikDee]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Sean, I second the advice on checking the coupler real good (that triangular thing) It has a press fit rubber bushing inside, maybe it's dried out? maybe not? But it is the main item that bolts to the engine, & turns the driveshaft, if it slips, & burns out, you will have to remove the engine, & drive, to replace it! It maybe a better idea to get a new one now to replace it now, next it is very important to align the engine, & drive when you put it all together, or you can burn out the rubber in the coupler, which would be more likely if it's old. this is just a heads up here to save you some grief later. Good Luck

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Everything is apart and....

yikes... and don't we all know how that sort of thing goes sometimes...

Note up front that I'm strictly a backyard hack and while I usually get things to work, some of the real pros may take exception to something i say. I might listen if they do...

When you get belows, get the merc bellows adhesive... some of the snottiest mess I've ever played with but does it's job well. IMHO Changing bellows is a major pita... and among my least favorite jobs...

I would also go with the exhaust tube rather than bellows - MUCH easier to get it on and no disadvantage that I can see at all in your situation.

On u-joints, put some grease into them and see what comes out, but looking at them, the best bet is to assume you need new ones. When you're cleaning up the yoke on the out drive end, be careful not to get a bunch of crap in the sealing area... if it isn't leaking now that will get it there in a hurry.

If you wind up needing a yoke once you start pulling u-joints apart, send me a message I have a couple of spare outdrive uppers with ujoints and yokes attached - one that looks to be in good shape... While I wouldn't reuse the ukoints, the yokes and shaft would be fine. I'm assuming that you'll be fine with new u-joints. I don't know that I see a need to paint the yokes after you clean them up, I might just clean them off with a wire wheel and then leave a coat of oil or grease on them when you put it back together. It's supposed to be dry in there and you're supposed to have it apart / off every year...

I might take the top cover off the outdrive and see what you find. The 4 bolt heads look funny, but it's a 12 point 3/8 socket. That doesn't require any special tools to put back together. If that's all clean and free of rust and water intrustion, I would probably be tempted to put the drive on and run it for right now, just making sure to check the outdrive lube for water fairly frequently. If it is going to eventually require a major overhaul, buying just the upper, lower or both from sei is the way to go. My lower half is from them, shifts great and is holding up well even though I put a LOT more torque to it than is recommended... Getting one rebuilt unless you know and trust the shop is almost as much of a crap shoot as buying a used one.

If your brackets are too messed up on the powersteering pump, I might also have one of those... althought yours looks like cleanup with a wire wheel and some industrial version rustoleum from a rattle can will do well on it.

OH, and a word of advise on drilling holes to check for rot... Make sure you're ready to adequately fill and seal the holes!!! Wouldn't is suck to get it all back together and then figure out next year that your holes allowed water to seep into the wood and start rotting everything... Not that I would have any personal experience with something like this....

Finally, I'm never so good at seeing what I'm missing up front...

 

[1997StingRay190]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Hey Tim thanks for the input here and hope all is well on your end - did you ever get out on the water last weekend?

What are you talking about when you say use exhaust tube instead of bellows? Is there something other than a bellows that I can use in its place that doesn't require the bellows expansion tool (which I don't have my hands on yet)?

I'm going to be doing the gimball bearing and bellows tomorrow if possible, anyone have any last suggestions? Out of all the info I've seen on it, this appears to me to be the most comprehensive guide to doing it - anyone want to weigh in on the quality/accuracy of this write-up? http://www.mercstuff.com/gimbalbearing2.htm

Ouuhhh.. and Tim or anyone else with experience, what was it you said you made to install the gimball bearing? I was thinking I heard something about 4 inch PVC... in case I can't borrow one from the local shop, can you post a picture or description?

Thanks fellas
Sean

 

[MikDee]

Re: Everything is apart and....

You mean the Mercruiser exhaust tube, instead of the bellows. It just clamps to the outdrive plate, and it's open on the end. It doesn't attach to the drive, for thru the prop exhaust, and is a bit louder once you get on plane. It is cheaper, and easier to put on then the bellows, a lot of guys opt for this. I don't have the part # or picture, but maybe someone will be along with it.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Everything is apart and....

On the tube, what MikDee said. Not a lot lounder, and a whole lot easier to get on there!

On the Gimbal bearing, I'm not sure I would recommend the way I did as easy. I'm not sure what size pvc pipe I used, but I got a section that was the right diameter to only hit the the outer part of the bearing. Then I used a round piece of wood (longer than the pvc pipe), and wrapped enough duct tape around it to make a shoulder. Then used it to line the bearing up with the hole and hold it in place while I snugged the pvc pip against the bearing. then used the piece of pipe to drive the bearing in. Note that the pipe was not strong enough to drive it in all the way and I wound up having to use a piece of brass round stock to tap it the rest of the way in.. a little at a time moving around the edges. have to be careful not to **** it and can't hit anywhere but the outer edge or you'll damage the bearing. this last part took a while. If I remember there are some good posts on ere if you do a search. I only did it that way because it was a Sunday evening and I was bound and determined to get it done with what I had on hand. I've done it all of one time...

I'm sure the tool would be much easier!

no water yet... Am goig to pull the engine friday or this weekend to do some upgrades for a little more power (head porting, different carb and intake, maybe more cam) and hard anodize my exhaust and intake manifolds so they'll hold up if i spend more time in the salt this year... Haven't had much if any daylight time to play yet this year anyhow... yet... Couple of weeks and it'll be most every day...

 

[1997StingRay190]

Re: Everything is apart and....

You mean the Mercruiser exhaust tube, instead of the bellows. It just clamps to the outdrive plate, and it's open on the end. It doesn't attach to the drive, for thru the prop exhaust, and is a bit louder once you get on plane. It is cheaper, and easier to put on then the bellows, a lot of guys opt for this. I don't have the part # or picture, but maybe someone will be along with it.

Thanks for that Mike. Can you get me a picture or something? The tube attaches to the transom side or the outdrive side? And the other side just flaps loosely?

I took the bellows off last night (except the shift cable) and that was a nice job.... if your into to pain and suffering. Next the gimbal bearing and OMFG - talk about a humbling experience. It ended up after an hour or so of trying to pull it with a 5 pound sledge puller and no luck, I had to beat the inner bearing out from the inside of the boat with a 1/2 inch breaker bar and a 3 pound sledge! Then the aluminum race pulled in like 3 pulls with the sledge puller thing. I was thinking I may be able to get by without the install tool until that happened. Does anyone know if AutoZones bearing install kit will work for this? Any tips on the install..?

 

[MikDee]

Re: Everything is apart and....

Here's a pic of the exhaust tube, (scroll down) it almost looks like a flat funnel the just clamps onto the transom assembly, instead of the bellows.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300312535515&viewitem=

As far as the gimble bearing, I can't help you much, I only did it once, it worked out okay, but that was enough It was a real pain to do.

 

[ken_23434]

Re: Everything is apart and....

I don't know if Autozone would have a bearing driver big enough for the gimbal bearing. When I did mine last year, I ordered the driver from some website. I don't remember how much I paid either. I will be using it again soon, though since my u-joint bellows starting to leak on me. So, twice within 12 months, I think the price on the driver will be worth it. I don't plan on using it this often, though.

Back to Autozone... Take the bearing with you and see what they have. There might be some car or truck application that has a similar size hearing driver. Heck, the correct diameter piece of exhaust pipe might work. Not sure how well it will stand up to the beating.