Every title is not in seller's name

Laneman25

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I've looked at dozens of boats for sale on Facebook Marketplace Texas. Literally every boat is not in the seller's name. In Texas we can plug in the hull registration numbers and find the owner. Is it an absolute show stopper to buy a boat not in the seller's name if they have a signed title?
 

tpenfield

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That is a nice feature, to be able to look up a current owner's name. I wonder how many states have such a feature?

For me, an out-of-state registration number has always been a red flag, but can certainly happen with same-state.

Got any examples to share?
 

Scott Danforth

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I've looked at dozens of boats for sale on Facebook Marketplace Texas. Literally every boat is not in the seller's name. In Texas we can plug in the hull registration numbers and find the owner. Is it an absolute show stopper to buy a boat not in the seller's name if they have a signed title?
Have you talked to the local registration office?
 

Laneman25

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I'm trying to figure out a workaround, like doing the lost title process to verify everything title wise would eventually work before buying the boat. My concern is the state requiring the seller to pay their tax as part of the transfer, which would then fall on me.
 

Laneman25

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That is a nice feature, to be able to look up a current owner's name. I wonder how many states have such a feature?

For me, an out-of-state registration number has always been a red flag, but can certainly happen with same-state.

Got any examples to share?
Out of state without a title is near impossible here. One of the ads is for a nice 2003 19ft Stingray 4.3 Merc from out of state but no title. Seller wants $1500.
 

alldodge

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Some states don't have titles, like Tennessee, just a registration
 

drewm3i

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I have, on a few occassions, bought a boat, not registered it, and then resold it. Usually I have done this when I find a good deal in the offseason or need a parts boat. It is very common practice and there is no point paying tax on a boat one isn't going to use.

What you need to make sure of is that you have a title that has been signed and notarized. From there all you typically need is an additional notarized bill of sale.
 

roscoe

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Out of state without a title is near impossible here. One of the ads is for a nice 2003 19ft Stingray 4.3 Merc from out of state but no title. Seller wants $1500.
Agree on a price, then tell the seller you will pay the additional fees for him the register and title it in his name.

Only after he has the new title, pay him the negotiated price plus the title fee.
 

roscoe

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I have, on a few occassions, bought a boat, not registered it, and then resold it. Usually I have done this when I find a good deal in the offseason or need a parts boat. It is very common practice and there is no point paying tax on a boat one isn't going to use.

What you need to make sure of is that you have a title that has been signed and notarized. From there all you typically need is an additional notarized bill of sale.
Sorry, but thats just wrong.
You pay the tax on the sale/purchase, whether you use the item or not.
Do you list "tax cheat" on your marine surveyor business card as one of your qualifications? JMSO
 

drewm3i

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Sorry, but thats just wrong.
You pay the tax on the sale/purchase, whether you use the item or not.
Do you list "tax cheat" on your marine surveyor business card as one of your qualifications? JMSO
You actually don't have to register and pay the USAGE tax on a USED boat if you don't plan to use it or it is undergoing a refit and not in seaworthy condition. Most states don't have sales tax for used vessels, but rather USAGE tax that you pay in order to title and register a vessel. That is the actual law in almost every state and anyone who willingly pays tax on an interim vessel is a fool.
 
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roscoe

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Most states don't have sales tax for used vessels, but rather USAGE tax that you pay in order to title and register a vessel. That is the actual law in almost every state and anyone who willingly pays tax on an interim vessel is a fool.
Well thats simply untrue, but I guess you can say anything on the internet.
I can list at least 10 states off the top of my head, that do have a sales tax on boats. Can probably find another dozen states in a few minutes. And I'm sure there are plenty more. Tax will be collected when you title it. And you don't have legal ownership of the boat until the title is in your name. You can call it a sales tax, or a titling tax. The same goes for any item with a title, car, mobile home, cargo trailer. Some states even require a title for an outboard motor. And let's not forget about the states that have a personal property tax on some boats. A title proves ownership. Registration allows the item to be used on the water or the roadway.
 
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Lou C

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In a state that titles boats I’m thinking you might not actually legally own it unless titled in your name. If you don’t legally own it; can you legally sell it? In NY boats & outboard motors are titled but smaller boats and trailers are not.
 

stresspoint

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i read on another forum that you only pay tax on the hull ,and that the motor and trailer are a separate entity.

how true is this ?

seems to me if this is true , claiming the price of the hull alone would reduce the tax a fair amount.
example a $5000 kit (trailer boat fittings and motor) reduced down to a hull would make that a $1000 or less taxable item .
 

Laneman25

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I'm hoping someone from Texas will chime in with how they did it. Since every boat is not in seller's name, obviously people are somehow making it work. The boats all have titles signed by the previous owner; it's the bill of sale that is the problem. State requires a bill of sale from the person named on the title. I think new buyers are "creating" bills of sale and presenting them during registration.
 

alldodge

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Might be the power of attorney thing by a dealer. When a car is sold to dealer owner signs Title and limited POA which allows dealer the right to resale and sign as original owner
 

drewm3i

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i read on another forum that you only pay tax on the hull ,and that the motor and trailer are a separate entity.

how true is this ?

seems to me if this is true , claiming the price of the hull alone would reduce the tax a fair amount.
example a $5000 kit (trailer boat fittings and motor) reduced down to a hull would make that a $1000 or less taxable item .
This is almost always true for outboard motor vessels and gets gray for inboard vessels, which are sometimes classified as permanently mounted engines. However, the workers at the DNR/DMV are usually pretty clueless, so if you buy a typical sterndrive boat for like 12K and have the seller itemize the bill of sale saying you paid 3K for the hull, 2K for the trailer, 3K for the motor, and 2K for the outdrive, and 2K for the canvas and accessories, typically they only make you pay tax on the 3K since none of the other items are taxable.
 

drewm3i

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Well thats simply untrue, but I guess you can say anything on the internet.
I can list at least 10 states off the top of my head, that do have a sales tax on boats. Can probably find another dozen states in a few minutes. And I'm sure there are plenty more. Tax will be collected when you title it. And you don't have legal ownership of the boat until the title is in your name. You can call it a sales tax, or a titling tax. The same goes for any item with a title, car, mobile home, cargo trailer. Some states even require a title for an outboard motor. And let's not forget about the states that have a personal property tax on some boats. A title proves ownership. Registration allows the item to be used on the water or the roadway.
List them and we will research this together. Other vehicles are irrelevant to a discussion on common practice with boats. The states that bill vessels under property tax like Deleware are an exception also. USCG documented boats also typically require no tax to register at the federal level so many folks (especially large yacht owners) go this route and then register them in a state/principality without tax.

I can assure you in FL (6% sales and usage tax on hull value ONLY due when titling) and MD (5% excise tax on hull value when titling/registering) that what I described is common practice. I have even met used boat dealers that do not title and register their vessels for this very reason. To say they don't own them is laughable when they're collecting large checks for these vessels that they're moving in and out within a matter of weeks.

And you're dead wrong about the title proving ownership...all you need for that is possession of a signed and notarized title and notarized bill of sale in your name. I've bought and sold 10+ boats and have never once had an issue and no one that has ever bought a boat from me has either, including one large 38' sailboat I sold that the new owner decided to have USCG documented. Most states give you 30-90 days to register a boat anyway and there are typically no penalties and plenty of grace. The laws for this are fairly lenient as they should be.

I would never not recommend paying the tax on a vessel and not registering it. What I was saying before was for certain project boats/parts boats that won't see the water for years--if ever again. When itemized properly, vessel sales/usage/excise tax is typically not even that much and though you can purchase insurance without the boat titled in your name, if a claim were to arise it could make things complicated.

As for why the OP is finding this to be true, I would be leery and want more information from the sellers. If they have a signed over title or registration (for states that don't title) that is addressed to the seller, or left blank which is common practice, then it should be okay. But if the title/registration is not signed over, then transferring ownership would be impossible. Are these real titles or are they copies OP? The real ones look like the paper money is printed on.
 
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