Ethical question

[POINTER94]

I have twin 454's with bravo 3's on a boat that I have had for 3 years. I have had it serviced by a guy for two years. He has been very good. I had another friend I have known for years buy into a mercruiser dealership. After the first run of the year I had a whine in the starboard drive. I sent it to the new guy to look at as I always pull for the little guy trying to make it. I had no intention of abandoning the first guy. Well upon inspection the starboard drive had 1 quart of drive oil and the entire top of the drive was destroyed. He ran a pressure test and there was no leak in the drive. These two mechanics actually know each other and are friendly with each other.

I went back to the guy who did the service for the winter and asked him what he will do. He said he would own up if it was his mistake as to not adding oil during winter layup. Now when the rubber meets the road he is saying because the alarms didn't sound until 20 miles out of the harbor that it isn't his fault. Well before leaving port I noticed the reservoiir was low so I filled it to the line. 20 miles later, at the point where the alarms went off I added oil to the reservoir. I added oil until the alarm went off. I added a quart total. When drained it had a total of a quart of oil in the drive.

Even now there is no leak in the drive. Pressure tested to 15 psi to a period of time. I had no intention of leaving this first mechanic, just throwing a bone to the new guy on what I thought might be something minor. Now I am looking at a huge bill. Does going to the second mechanic absolve the first mechanic of responsibility? What would be a reasonable test to prove the unit never was filled? Am I just a jerk?

 

[henleyhale]

Well lets say you went back to mechanic one and he found this issue, then remembered it was his fault, do you think he woulda said he jack i screwed your drive up, or do ya think he'd have said i found a leak in the drive and tore it apart but i found it, just a seal, but by the way the drive is toast brother, that sucks man. P.s. i bet its the one that hurts your pocket and not his.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Well before leaving port I noticed the reservoiir was low so I filled it to the line. 20 miles later, at the point where the alarms went off I added oil to the reservoir. I added oil until the alarm went off. I added a quart total. When drained it had a total of a quart of oil in the drive.

Howdy,


If the drive lube monitor was LOW (below the ADD line) or empty, and you had to add oil prior to leaving, the amount you would add is something like a cup or 2, etc.

If you ran until the alarm went off, [empty drive lube monitor] We're still only talking about maybe a cup so in the drive lube monitor. BUT, the drive has to get warm and subsequently cool to "suck" the oil already there out of the monitor. [I suspect, if the drive was empty, any oil in the monitor *would* slowly drain into the drive over a winter lay-up period]

NOW, having said that...(initially).... the drive could still be empty (or way low) and still have oil in the drive lube monitor.

If you were the only one to run it after it was "serviced", it either leaked out, or it wasn't full to begin with..........and/or it was under serviced with oil, but you could not know that. [I think it was empty to begin with/////the dude probably forgot fill the drive, but still filled the drive lube monitor]

My previous OMG King Kobra (when my brother owned the boat) was "serviced" by a dealer and afterwards, they didn't bother to fill the drive with oil. The boat made it about halfway around the lake before the drive quickly seized. They replaced drive. (fairly big bucks for a 460 King Kobra drive)

He had it serviced by a different dealer a couple of years later and they filled it like a Mercruiser. It made it a little further around the lake that time before the "upper" self-destructed. BOTH dealers though, replaced the drive with no "lawyering-up"

I made up my mind that I would NEVER let anyone change the drive oil in any drive that I own. <<<ESPECIALLY MY BRAVO III !!>>>>

As far as the alarms going off, the drive lube monitor only alerts on low drive oil IN the monitor.

If you filled it (the drive lube monitor) , there'd be NO alarm until the drive began to cool a little and suck the oil back into the drive.

The drive could be completely empty, and the monitor completely full and there'd be NO alarm.

The drive would self still destruct just the same.

If you are the only operator of the boat, and this is the first time you have run it since coming out of storage, the drive WAS empty.....
The "mechanic" needs to own-up to his screw up.

Good luck,

Rick

 

[POINTER94]

thanks for the feedback. Yes, I will be taking the hit to the wallet on this one. I want to give the first mechanic the benefit of the doubt, and I should have brought it to him as he had done all the work on the boat over the past couple of years, but I don't see where having another mercruiser certified mechanic opening the drive relieves him of his responsibility. He is dancing on the head of a pin. I asked him to go by the other mechanic who has the boat, two blocks away from his shop and he won't do it. He is having me pay to put the unit (damaged) back together, launch it and he will retrieve it and evaluate. When I asked him what metric he would use that would convince him of his responsibility, he couldn't answer the question. HT3 your explanation is exactly what the new mechanic explained to me as well. The next excuse was a drive with no oil (actually one quart) couldn't run twenty miles in 60 degree water without blowing up. Well, it did... in fact it ran more like 40 miles and never cratered, it was giving off a strange noise which tipped me off and I had it pulled as a preventive measure. Glad I did.

I hate being in this position, but I think I am getting bent over...

Thanks for everyones feedback

 

[UncleWillie]

...I made up my mind that I would NEVER let anyone change the drive oil in any drive that I own...

+1 to That!
There are a few things that no one services but me! It is just too important.

I do not fill the Lube Monitor bottle through the cap.
I keep pumping from the bottom until the bottle is above the ADD line.
If I ever see the bottle below the ADD line, it will be assumed the drive is empty.
I will Top Off a bottle, but never FILL a bottle from the top.
My Alpha will go from FULL to ADD in about 40 hours. Never in a day!

At the end of the season I dismounted the drive and removed the Top cap.
The missing oil was used to fill the upper drive nearly completely as the drive "Burped" the trapped air over the season.
Every Drop that ever went in, was still there.

 

[Fun Times]

Hum, sorry you have to go through this ordeal as the stern drive being really low on oil is an high expense no one wants to go through... Much less try and prove to someone you thought you could trust possibly didn't add oil.

I added a quart total. When drained it had a total of a quart of oil in the drive.

You'd at least think maybe you'd have a little over one quart if you added one full quart and one would hope that at the very least the servicing tech would have added enough oil to fill the reservoir up to the oil level line before leaving for the day. The complete system holds almost 3 quarts of gear oil.

If the reservoir wasn't cleaned by the tech in question and if there's a heavy build up of oil sludge that typically happens with Mecruiser's high performance gear oil at the bottom of the oil reservoir, then that may have contribute to the slower gravity feed oil drain before sounding the waning horn of the empty bottle.

Hopefully the new Mercruiser service owner or tech knows it's best to turn the prop shafts while pressure testing the drives....especially the bravo 3 drives as the prop shaft seals at the bearing carrier are know to be a failure point which while under load allows the oil to flow right on out of the drive as you cruise along and you can watch the oil reservoir quickly drop. So check the seals carefully.

The old style seals in question are item numbers 42 in the following link. http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...sc=GEAR+HOUSING(BRAVO+III)(ONE+PIECE+HOUSING)

Merc has since changed seal designs to try and help stop the issue.

If needed, maybe try talking to your insurance company to see if they can help financially if the tech in question isn't setup for full liability coverage.

Hope things turn out for the best on your end, good luck.

 

[alldodge]

Sure is bad news if I did the work it would be my hit. Hope this works out

As FT mentioned there are new seal part numbers for both the small (item 37) [FONT=&quot]26-8M0033407 [/FONT] and the large (item 42) [FONT=&quot]26-861694 [/FONT]and are direct replacement for the seals. Replaced them when I rebuilt my drive, they are double seal units and are all one piece. Do a much better job of sealing

The old style seals in question are item numbers 42 in the following link. http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show_...ECE+HOUSING%29

 

[tpenfield]

Oil alarm really would not be the make or break on this issue as you have described it; as stated, it monitors the reservoir only not the actual level in the outdrive. I suspect that the mechanic will not want to swallow the fix-it pill, so he is finding a way out.

 

[viper1]

Probably right it was the first guys mistake. But going to a different one then the one who did it dont help and provides much wiggle room. Then again if the alarm went off id call the tow boat and come straight in. I replaced one engine and two out drives so far. One more isnt on my list.

 

[POINTER94]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and suggestions. I loathe someone being so miopic as to fail to own up to their responsibilities. But I left the discussion with the first mechanic today that I don't KNOW what happened. In the back of my mind I am 90%+ he messed up but I won't berate or say anything disparaging about him unless I am positive. I think I will run my business thru someone else going forward. Mistake on him as I spend a considerable amount each year with him. The final nail was when he told me a seal could break, leak all the oil out, then reseal itself and hold 15 psi.... Might as well call me stupid.

Lesson learned, but it is always great to get the support of the board. Thanks guys

 

[HT32BSX115]

he told me a seal could break, leak all the oil out, then reseal itself and hold 15 psi.... Might as well call me stupid.

Lesson learned, but it is always great to get the support of the board. Thanks guys

Now I have heard everything (or nearly everything!!!)

Obviously you're NOT stupid..... But it appears that he might be............

 

[carrier82]

It is a blessing that you didn't take the outdrive to the original mechanic. Now you can have an objective statement of what has happened. Now it is a matter of documentation.

I would request the new mechanic to write a statement of:
- what kind of damage has occured
- results of pressure testing the drive
- the most likely cause of outdrive damage
- cost estimate for repair

Then you ask the former mechanic, in written, what is he or she going to do about the case. Most likely the response is poor. In EU we have this "European Consumer Center" authority, that helps negotiating with corporations and can have the case reviewed. They can also help when the case requires going to court. Maybe you have something similar in the states?

 

[Volphin]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and suggestions. I loathe someone being so miopic as to fail to own up to their responsibilities. But I left the discussion with the first mechanic today that I don't KNOW what happened. In the back of my mind I am 90%+ he messed up but I won't berate or say anything disparaging about him unless I am positive. I think I will run my business thru someone else going forward. Mistake on him as I spend a considerable amount each year with him. The final nail was when he told me a seal could break, leak all the oil out, then reseal itself and hold 15 psi.... Might as well call me stupid.

Lesson learned, but it is always great to get the support of the board. Thanks guys

Well that guy has shown his true colors, and his ineptitude. Stick with wrench #2.

 

[henleyhale]

Ya know ive had seals in water systems that would leak under a low pressure load and not under high pressure. Ive also run into glue joints in pipes that behave that way, 10 to 15 psi hold for an hour. But 2 or 3 psi. It'd flow wide open if you could keep a steady 2 or 3 on it. Not saying this is the case, just sayin ive bore witness to some silly leaks like that. My bet is the fella forgot and he is too broke to fix it.