Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

newport dave

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
458
The engine is a 2001 Volvo 4.3Gi (Vortec V-6 roller cam / balance shaft engine) 250 hours. The problem: Unidentified engine noise. <br /><br />Sounds similar to a lifter noise at idle. It is very noticeable tap tap tap at idle, and goes away when engine is running (no load) at a slightly higher constant RPM, but you hear a loud clatter as the engine decelerates back to idle where it resumes the tap tap tap noise.<br /><br />The first thing I did is try to locate the noise with the valve covers on. I could not really tell which cylinder it was coming from. It sounded loudest at the front timing cover. I know the timing cover is plastic and you will hear any noise in the lifter valley through the cover. <br /><br />I put my PC based scan tool/scope on it to see what was going on performance wise. The scan tool showed no fault codes, perhaps a bit more IAC activity than normal, but nothing other than that. The scope indicated the need for a tune-up, but normal compression, and normal idle ignition patterns. Watching the scope at a higher RPM, there seemed to be more turbulence in #4 cylinder than the others. I thought that may be where the problem was. Cranking compression test showed all cylinders between 150 to 160 PSI.<br /><br />Next step was to pull the valve covers and look for loose rockers and such. No sign of any problem on either side. Ran engine with valve covers off. Still could not pin the noise down to any one cylinder, nor was there any obvious problem. Off came the intake manifold. Inspected all rockers, pushrods and lifters. Found a small crack in the intake lifter of #3 cylinder. Didn’t really think it was the problem, but it was replaced. No other signs of any problems, other than my engine guy who inspected the lifters said they looked excessively worn for an engine with 250 hours. He says they look like they have 1000+ hours on them. Also checked the balance shaft for play. It was fine.<br /><br />The engine goes back together and the noise has not changed. Spent some more time listening to the sound at various RPMs. It is still loudest at the timing cover. I start to wonder if it the balance shaft drive gears or timing chain could be the problem. So the timing cover comes off and that’s where I am now. <br /><br />The balance shaft drive gears look fine, but the timing chain and cam sprocket look to me to have a lot of wear. See the pictures below. Could this wear indicate a problem? If so what? Just worn out? Is it the cause of the noise perhaps? Any suggestions or comments would be welcome.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Dave<br /><br />
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Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

I replaced a timing chain cover on a 2005 engine with 30 hours on it due to a cut front seal. No noise, but showed the same slack in the chain. Turns out it's normal. The chain did have some contact areas with the gears where you show your wear marks, but no problems with noise. Also found the same thing in the newer 5.0's and 5.7's when taken apart. <br />(NOTE: 5.7 had a siezed piston with less than 1 hour engine time. 5.0 sunk in salt water and let set for a week with salt water in the engine AKA Junk)<br />Not much of a help with your problem, just letting you know the play in the chain is normal.<br /><br />
Timing%20chain.png
 

searay3

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
655
Re: Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

You stated you found a crack in a lifter. Also the guy who inspected them said they were really worn. The motor is already mostly diassembled, pull the cam and have a look. Maybe it was a manufacture snafoo. Maybe a bad cam. Measure against the specs, might be obvious though. Probably unlikely, but maybe an issue with the block?
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

I have had some issues with the lifter plunger sticking on a few of the roller cammed 8.1'S, will give about the same symptoms. but seems ya got a crazy noise that just requires easter egging and I hate easter egging but sometimes its a nessasary evil in this profession.
 

newport dave

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
458
Re: Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

Thanks for the responses guys. I did not mention it, but I am the fourth or fifth tech to look at this thing. I am told a guy from GM was even called out and could not locate/explain the cause of the noise. I have not spoke to the boat owner, only his broker, but I guess the noise started at about 50 hours has not changed in the last 200 hours. <br /><br />I have copies of two service bulletins on the 4.3, but the symptoms are inconsistant with those described on the service bulletins.<br /><br />I will be taking the chain and cam sproket to my engine guy this morning and I will see if he thinks I should pull the cam (it looks like there may be enough room in front of the engine to do this). I will post more later. Keep the ideas coming.<br /><br />Dave
 

newport dave

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
458
Re: Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

Made a trip to the machine shop yesterday and the verdict is the timing chain and sproket may have some wear, but not really enough to suggest that the timing chain was the source of the noise (DonS is right again). However, they made me aware of a GM service bulletin on this engine that calls for addition of a chain tensioner. This is supposed to address a rattle noise at 2800 to 3000 under load. Thats not what this engine is doing, so not sure if I will add the tensioner or not.<br /><br />Where do I go from here? Add the chain tensioner? Put the timing cover back on run it some more to try to find the noise? Pull the cam for inspection (would have to pull the intake manifold back off)? More later...<br /><br />Dave
 

olbuddyjack

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
318
Re: Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

Hows the end play on the cam and crank? I'm looking at the side wear on the chain links. Seems odd. A worn thrust bearing could allow the crank to walk.<br /><br />Wrist pin?<br /><br />Cracked piston skirt? A skirt noise would likely change as the engine warmed up.<br /><br />Heres a stretch, small exaust leak between the head and manifold.<br /><br />Keep tryin mate, the answers out there...
 

newport dave

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
458
Re: Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

Following the advise of my engine guy, I ordered and will install the chain tensioner. I really don't think it is the source of the noise, but we will see.<br /><br />olbuddy,<br />I have checked and eliminated the possibility of an exhaust leak being the source of the noise. Crank end play, cam and balance shaft thrust plates all look good.<br /><br />Dave
 

newport dave

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
458
Re: Engine guys - need help with 4.3 Volvo

The new chain, sprockets, and tensioner are installed. I will have the engine running again tomorrow and continue trouble shooting if necessary. Below is the tensioner installed and the cracked lifter.<br /><br />Dave<br /><br />
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