JustJason
Vice Admiral
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 5,320
So I'm curious as to what you all think. I read a few threads about engine break in's, including a guy that just blew up a 3.0L.
When I was in school, my Merctech instructor (merc master mech and factory trainer) said the procedures outlined in the owners manual are not for breaking in an engine, but to actually help aid in boat handeling especially when it comes down to a new boater.
His example was... "Merc knows that there are idiots every single year that go out and buy something they can't afford in the first place, and something off the wall. Like a gofast with twin 502's. In order to keep owners from going out of control before they know how to handle a boat of any size, they print an "engine break in procedure" in the owners manuals in hopes that the owners will follow it, and learn how to control the boat responsibly by NOT turning the key and slamming the shifter to WOT"
So in the classroom a lengthy discussion ensued. Sure the loudmouths said the bearings and the rings needed to "break in".
So the instructor asks us all... What causes an engine to grenade... wether it has 0 hours or 2000 hours. What failure(s) would you have???
The typical answers were shouted out. Spun bearing, siezed piston, rings need to seat etc....
Then we went through as many scenarios as we could 1 by 1.
Spun bearing/siezed bearing -- Oil clearences, Main journals and rod journals. If an engine is properly measured and put together correctly to specifications. And if the correct oil weight is used. Then this should never happen.
The probability of this happening on high hour engines is higher because of the amount of time it sits in between cold starts. It is cold starts that causes journal on bearing wear. Not the actually running of the engine itself as long is it is within specified rpm.
Newer engines have higher oil pressure because the gap is very small. The gap does not double in size in an engine that has 1 hour or 1000 hours magically. Specific conditions will wear the bearing faster, but it has nothing to do with hours. He states that well taken care of 2000+ hour engines will have a gap larger than when it was built, but still withing specifications.
Seized piston --- Well, what specifically causes a piston to sieze?? 2 things will. A hot sieze and a cold sieze.
Hot Siezes - If the engines cooling system was set up properly when the engine was new. And every part of the cooling system is functioning properly with no malfuntions. Then you will never have a hot sieze (which happens during a bad overheat) So what changes between an engine with 0 hours vs a properly maintained one with 2000 hours??? We don't break in water pumps. When ever a water pump, curculating pump, thermostat is repaired/replaced... we do not "re-break in the engine"
Cold siezes happen when a numbskull starts a cold engine and revs the sucker to WOT. (this is not common with 4 stroke engines) Because the piston and the cylinder are not the same material, they do not expand at the same rate. If the piston expands faster than the cylinder walls do then the piston to cylinder wall clearance falls under spec, and the piston siezes. Again this is not common. But if the piston to cylinder wall spec is within spec at the time the engine was built. Then what changes between 0 hours and 2000 hours? Not much. If anything, the 2000hr engine will eventually wear off its cross hatch, but all that does is make the piston to cylinder wall gap larger (which will not sieze a piston) and not smaller (which would sieze a piston)
Ring seating, cross hatching --- Okay... soooo, people say an engine has to "break in" to seat the rings. What does that mean? Specifically?
Rings seating into what? Into the piston? No... the rings do not seat into or wear into the piston. The rings do not wear into the cylinder walls either.
Cross hatching -- Boring a series of small grooves into the cylinder wall. Okay, for you folks that don't know. Cross hatching happens during maching and it machines a specific groove into the cylinder walls. There are many grooves machined tighty together. And as with any groove you have a high spot on the groove, and a low spot.
Now the difference between the high and the low is microscopic. A good cross hatching job will not show up on a dial bore gauge. But when the engine is running, the piston ring is riding on the high part of the groove, over the total cylinder. Engine oil, microscopically, sits in the low parts of the groove. The oil helps lubricate the rings, and helps with the over seal that needs to happen in order to get good compression.
So what are we seating again exactly? The rings don't "conform" to the cylinder wall. So are we conforming the cylinder wall to the rings? Not really. On every engine. Wear and tear, cold starts, extended WOT running, will eventually start to break down the high parts of a cross hatch groove. When it does, there is less room for the oil to hide out in. When there is less room for oil, we get poorer lubrication, and poorer sealing. The 4 properties of oil are to "cool, clean, lubricate, and seal". Less oil in the cross hatch grooves means a loss of all 4 properties.... So then the real question should be... Will I ruin my cross hatch by not following break in procedures... and the answer to that is no. Cross hatch will wear over time. But it is cold starts and hi rpm that causes the most wear... not what you do in the first 20 hours.
Not marine related... but personally i've pulled heads on many a high mile Honda and still saw good cross hatching.
Valves do not need to "break in" or "seat in" either. 30+ years ago the same may not have been said. Because the materials were a lot softer than they are today. Neither to valves springs, or any part of the valve assembly.
So what do you old salts (Don S, Bondo, Rodbolt) have to say? Would you agree or disagree with the instructor?
When I was in school, my Merctech instructor (merc master mech and factory trainer) said the procedures outlined in the owners manual are not for breaking in an engine, but to actually help aid in boat handeling especially when it comes down to a new boater.
His example was... "Merc knows that there are idiots every single year that go out and buy something they can't afford in the first place, and something off the wall. Like a gofast with twin 502's. In order to keep owners from going out of control before they know how to handle a boat of any size, they print an "engine break in procedure" in the owners manuals in hopes that the owners will follow it, and learn how to control the boat responsibly by NOT turning the key and slamming the shifter to WOT"
So in the classroom a lengthy discussion ensued. Sure the loudmouths said the bearings and the rings needed to "break in".
So the instructor asks us all... What causes an engine to grenade... wether it has 0 hours or 2000 hours. What failure(s) would you have???
The typical answers were shouted out. Spun bearing, siezed piston, rings need to seat etc....
Then we went through as many scenarios as we could 1 by 1.
Spun bearing/siezed bearing -- Oil clearences, Main journals and rod journals. If an engine is properly measured and put together correctly to specifications. And if the correct oil weight is used. Then this should never happen.
The probability of this happening on high hour engines is higher because of the amount of time it sits in between cold starts. It is cold starts that causes journal on bearing wear. Not the actually running of the engine itself as long is it is within specified rpm.
Newer engines have higher oil pressure because the gap is very small. The gap does not double in size in an engine that has 1 hour or 1000 hours magically. Specific conditions will wear the bearing faster, but it has nothing to do with hours. He states that well taken care of 2000+ hour engines will have a gap larger than when it was built, but still withing specifications.
Seized piston --- Well, what specifically causes a piston to sieze?? 2 things will. A hot sieze and a cold sieze.
Hot Siezes - If the engines cooling system was set up properly when the engine was new. And every part of the cooling system is functioning properly with no malfuntions. Then you will never have a hot sieze (which happens during a bad overheat) So what changes between an engine with 0 hours vs a properly maintained one with 2000 hours??? We don't break in water pumps. When ever a water pump, curculating pump, thermostat is repaired/replaced... we do not "re-break in the engine"
Cold siezes happen when a numbskull starts a cold engine and revs the sucker to WOT. (this is not common with 4 stroke engines) Because the piston and the cylinder are not the same material, they do not expand at the same rate. If the piston expands faster than the cylinder walls do then the piston to cylinder wall clearance falls under spec, and the piston siezes. Again this is not common. But if the piston to cylinder wall spec is within spec at the time the engine was built. Then what changes between 0 hours and 2000 hours? Not much. If anything, the 2000hr engine will eventually wear off its cross hatch, but all that does is make the piston to cylinder wall gap larger (which will not sieze a piston) and not smaller (which would sieze a piston)
Ring seating, cross hatching --- Okay... soooo, people say an engine has to "break in" to seat the rings. What does that mean? Specifically?
Rings seating into what? Into the piston? No... the rings do not seat into or wear into the piston. The rings do not wear into the cylinder walls either.
Cross hatching -- Boring a series of small grooves into the cylinder wall. Okay, for you folks that don't know. Cross hatching happens during maching and it machines a specific groove into the cylinder walls. There are many grooves machined tighty together. And as with any groove you have a high spot on the groove, and a low spot.
Now the difference between the high and the low is microscopic. A good cross hatching job will not show up on a dial bore gauge. But when the engine is running, the piston ring is riding on the high part of the groove, over the total cylinder. Engine oil, microscopically, sits in the low parts of the groove. The oil helps lubricate the rings, and helps with the over seal that needs to happen in order to get good compression.
So what are we seating again exactly? The rings don't "conform" to the cylinder wall. So are we conforming the cylinder wall to the rings? Not really. On every engine. Wear and tear, cold starts, extended WOT running, will eventually start to break down the high parts of a cross hatch groove. When it does, there is less room for the oil to hide out in. When there is less room for oil, we get poorer lubrication, and poorer sealing. The 4 properties of oil are to "cool, clean, lubricate, and seal". Less oil in the cross hatch grooves means a loss of all 4 properties.... So then the real question should be... Will I ruin my cross hatch by not following break in procedures... and the answer to that is no. Cross hatch will wear over time. But it is cold starts and hi rpm that causes the most wear... not what you do in the first 20 hours.
Not marine related... but personally i've pulled heads on many a high mile Honda and still saw good cross hatching.
Valves do not need to "break in" or "seat in" either. 30+ years ago the same may not have been said. Because the materials were a lot softer than they are today. Neither to valves springs, or any part of the valve assembly.
So what do you old salts (Don S, Bondo, Rodbolt) have to say? Would you agree or disagree with the instructor?