Electrical Trouble

[HighTrim]

Evening gentlemen....

Took the boat out today and had a couple issues that are new to me. Boat is a 1989 Cadorette 200 Holiday with a Mercruiser 4.3L Alpha One.

There are 2 issues, which I feel may be related. The first is that when plugging in the shore power, it trips the GFI at the plug instantly, meaning to me there is a short to ground somewhere. There is no hot water tank, so that is eliminated. Now, when running the CD player, it will sometimes suddenly power off, causing the voltage meter to peg out at 16 Volts instantly, then when the CD player comes back on, the voltage will go back to a normal 14 Volts. This only happens when the CD player "dies". If I do not turn the CD player on, it charges normally at 14 Volts. Does this sound like a short to ground in the CD player wiring? And if so, any likely spots? Or am I off track here?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Electrical Trouble

Does it have fridge or battery charger? How about a 110v panel with circut breakers? What does the 110 power? Jerry

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Electrical Trouble

No fridge or battery charger as of yet, although they will be in the future. No circuit breakers, although does have the normal fuse panel with the twist out glass fuses for blower, bildge, accessories, etc....

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Electrical Trouble

Was also just thinking, the trim gauge does not work. I thought that the sender was shot, but I suppose that the short could be in the wiring from the sender to the gauge. That still does not explain the oddities with the CD player though.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Electrical Trouble

bump ^^^^^^^^

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Electrical Trouble

You didn't answer the question the other poster's asked...what does the 110V from shore power up?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Electrical Trouble

You didn't answer the question the other poster's asked...what does the 110V from shore power up?

There is nothing that I know of. I was just simply going to use the power to run a tv on the boat instead of running an extension cord into the boat, but when I hooked it up, there was nothing connected. I have the twist adaptor plug for the boat, then the plug at the dock has a built in GFI. Could faulty wiring for the CD player affect the GFI when I plug in my shore power somehow? Any thoughts on why the Voltage meter pegs out when the CD player instantly dies?

 

[PondTunes]

Re: Electrical Trouble

It *SHOULDNT* as you have a 12v dc system and a 120v AC system.

I assume you are pluging the shore power connection into a plug on the side or rear of your boat. I also assume that there are AC outlets inside your boat for you to plug your TV into.. There should be a AC panel that allows you to turn your outlets on/off.

That being said, there should be a switch panel that has switches to turn off the outlets/fridge/Air Conditioner. These systems typically interface with the DC system and provide a way to charge the batteries when connected to shore power.

This should be the only link between the DC system and AC system, if you have malfunction causing the charging system to dump more than 16 volts into the DC system the CD player may be shutting down to protect itself.

The CD player shutting down sounds like a symptom more than the cause I think I would look at the AC system.

As far as your trim gauge is concerned if you search the I/O engine forums you can probably find a troubleshooting method for your particular engine. Here is one post that might help you diagnose the trim problem.
http://forums.iboats.com/showpost.php?p=1498635&postcount=7

If you're not blowing fuses and I wouldn't suspect melted wires but you could easily look to see if something got hot under your dash while you're looking @ the trim gauge.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Electrical Trouble

That is an excellent explanation, and I appreciate it greatly.

You are correct in your assumptions, that I am plugging into an outlet on the port side of the boat, and that I have AC outlets inside the boat to run the tv. Also, after hearing your explanation, I believe that you are correct in your theory that the CD player shutting down is a symptom rather than a cause.

If I do have a malfunction causing the charging system to dump more than 16volts into the DC system and the CD player is shutting down to protect itself, where the heck would I begin to troubleshoot this? My electrical theory understanding is no where near the level of yours, so please excuse my ignorance. Thanks again.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: Electrical Trouble

I'm willing to bet it doesn't happen while you're NOT connected to shore power, so I would look at the AC system..

1) are you in a marina around a lot of other boats?
2) do you know if your shore power AC outlet with the GFI is wired correctly?

A GFI outlet is designed to measure the current in the hot (black wire) and neutral (white wire) if the current is not equal then the current is flowing somewhere outside the circuit and the breaker kills the circuit. You can pick up a GFI tester at lowes/home depot to verify that the circuit is wired properly or if you're at a marina have your shore power outlet checked.

You should inspect your shore power cord for nicks and cuts, being around a boat it's bound to get wet and if current is leaking out of the cord it will trip the GFI.

Next DISCONNECT THE SHORE POWER.. then go to the shore power connector itself, it should be in good shape. On the inside of the boat where the connector is verify that the wires to the connector are tight if they aren't a molded connector.

These wires should go back to your shore power main circuit breaker, then off to the battery charger, air conditioner, fridge, outlets etc. Look for wires that are knicked or possibly lying in the bilge. Also if you open the panel look for any kind of loose screws or connectors. **AC power will kill you be 100% sure that it is OFF before touching anything, if you're in doubt call an electrician!**

If you have a generator it will be connected here too with a transfer switch. (im assuming you don't have a generator)

You could also have an inverter which is connected to your batteries, it takes DC power and converts it to AC allowing you to have AC power running off the house batteries.

What it sounds like is you have a shore powered battery charger that could be malfunctioning, the GFI could be un-related as it sounds like you do get it to reset and start providing shore power.

Can you duplicate the problem or is it totally random and sporatic? is there any certain time that it does it? Like whenever I plug this in and flip this switch everything goes crazy?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Electrical Trouble

I am in a marina with about 50 other boats, and have heard rumours that the owner cheaped out when wiring the electrical system with some 15 amp breakers instead of 30??

The 2 things I mentioned happen at different times. The GFI will trip instantly, while Im docked, when I try to plug in the twist type plug into the side of the boat. The CD player shuts down and the Voltage gauge pegs out at over 16 volts while at cruising speed, about 25 MPH. It will come back on by itself after about 5 minutes and then the Voltage gauge will start reading as it should.

Also, where would I disconnect the AC power? Ty for your help so far, your are quite knowledgeable and I appreciate it.

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: Electrical Trouble

Not sure how your marina is configured, but a quick test would be to ask a dockmate to plug into your slips power and see if the GFI trips, if it does it's most likely a marina problem, if not then you know you have a problem within the boat or your own power cord. Hard to believe they would go to the expense of putting in shorepower and it doesn't have at an on board charger?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Electrical Trouble

I actually boat near you quite often Bob, as my slip is on Sturgeon lake, a few lakes down the Trent Severn from you, but I often visit Couchiching, Sparrow and Simcoe from time to time.

My main concern is the charging system dumping the 16 Volts plus from time to time. It should be fairly easy to figure out why the GFI is tripping, but have never had a surge of voltage like that, causing the CD player to power off to protect itself. Like I said, the CD player only powers off when the volt meter spikes to over 16 volts charge.

 

[PondTunes]

Re: Electrical Trouble

If the surge of voltage happens at cruising speed it sounds like a faulty voltage regulator in your alternator. Since you aren't connected to shore power when it happens it's on the DC side.

Turning off the AC power is as simple as unplugging the shore power connector, and unless you have a inverter on the boat the AC should be dead. A multimeter can verify this if you're not sure.

I think the best course of action is to
a) have your shore power at the marina checked out by an electrician or check it yourself with a tester.

b) I'm pretty sure your alternator has an internal voltage regulator, you can pull the alternator off and take it to advance auto, napa or somewhere like that and have it checked. But ONLY replace it with a marine alternator automotive alternators will bolt up but are not spark arrested and could cause an explosion in the bilge when gasoline vapors are present. Napa deals in many marine parts and will save you the hassle and expense of having a marine mechanic come down and do the exact same for you. There are also many shops that specialize in alternator/starter repair and could rebuild / replace the voltage regulator in many cases. Just make sure they are familiar with marine gear!

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Electrical Trouble

Tks so much for all your help. I do appreciate it.

I will pull the alternator this weekend and check it out. Will post back next week to update.

Tks again.

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: Electrical Trouble

Chris...if you are going to make it over to Couch this year give me a shout, I keep mine on Couch now actually just around the corner from Rama at Ojibway Marina, all part of the same reservation that the Casino is on.