ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

[sah440]

I have a J25ELCNE and I am having problems starting it up. When I initially tried to start the motor nothing happened. I figured that there was either a problem with the wiring, or the starter was bad. I immediately ran a voltmeter over the battery and it read 12V - good.

So I removed the starter from the motor, and disconnected the power and ground cables from it. I used jumper cables to supply power from the battery directly to the starter. I connected the + cable to the power input termonal on the starter. I connected to ground cable to the starter housing. The pinion popped right up and spun like it should. Therefore I ruled out the possibility that the starter was bad.

Then I removed the jumper cables, rewired the starter as intended, and wired the battery into the circuit as intended. With a voltmeter I read the voltage supplied to the starter when it is wired as intended. I connected the + lead of the voltmeter to the starter's power input terminal. I connected the - lead of the voltmeter to the negative terminal on the battery. When I turned the key on the control box the voltmeter read 12V being supplied to the starter.... only it does not do anything?????? In addition, voltage going into the solenoid was 12V. Voltage coming out of the solenoid was 12V. Voltage at the engine ground terminal was 12V.

I was kinda hoping that the internal wiring harness was bad but it appears that maybe it is not???? Looking for expert advice only. Looking for the 'next step' in diagnosing the problem.

Scott

 

[Cofe]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

My thought is to check the ground wire connected to the powerhead. They sometimes get a little loose or get oil soaked. Make sure it is a dry clean ground.

 

[boobie]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

What kind of shape are your battery cables in ? Did you put your voltmeter on the starter mtr terminal and to ground, hit the key and check the voltage at the starter??? How's your battery, does it pass a load test??

 

[dew2]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Are all the wires cleaned where any contacts are made,12V on your meter can be had by connecting to 8 aa batteries,what is the amperage reading?

 

[sah440]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

I don't know exactly what u mean by a load test, but it is a brand new batter, fully charged. All im running on it right now is the motor so I assume it should be able to handle whatever load the motor is giving it.

I rewired most of the motor cable assembly wires because the insulation was rotting. About an inch of the wiring above the plug had good insulation, but the wires inside were beginning to turn orange. Therefore I used the plug and 1 inch of old wiring in the process. I didn't really want to buy a new mator cable assembly this year so i rewired it all, except for the wiring that feeds into the plug.

And I understand that corroded wires adds resistance to the wires. So this is my though. Maybe the starter is not getting enough current (Ohm's Law.. V=IR). If the resistance increases the current decreases... but the voltage can remain constant. This could explain why I am getting a reading of 12V all around.

Does anyone know what current the starter would require to function??
Or does this even seem like a reasonable notion?

Thanks

 

[sah440]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

My thought is to check the ground wire connected to the powerhead. They sometimes get a little loose or get oil soaked. Make sure it is a dry clean ground.

The ground is very clean

 

[dew2]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Try bypassing the solenoid,Batt cable from batt to solenoid jump it over to the solenoid out to starter. use a wire,pliers anything to bypass the solenoid.If that turns it, then my guess is the small wire on the solenoid to the switch is bad

 

[Cofe]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Edit:

 

[Cofe]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Edit:

 

[sah440]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Hope these help.

This is exactly what I did and I had a reading of 12V at every point. There is not any voltage drops.
I really think it might not be getting sufficient current. Does anyone know what current the starter needs to function?

 

[Cofe]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

If you did all that, and it still wont go. Use jumper cables from a vehicle directly connected to the battery cables to your motor. I am suspecting your battery doesn't have enough amperage, or bad cable somewhere. Doing this test will tell you if your battery is the culprit....Just a added note you probably have covered, but the motor must be in neutral......

 

[sah440]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Bump

 

[sah440]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

I did some more testing today and I think that I may have found the problem. Using jumper cables I placed the ground on the starter housing. When I placed the positive cable on the side of the Solenoid that runs directly to the battery the starter fired up. When I placed the positive cable on the side that the wires from the controls connect to, nothing happened. Even when I turned the key on the controls nothing happened.

So would this mean that the solenoid is bad? Or could this possibly suggest that maybe a bad wire in the motor cable assembly is also possible?

Tomorrow I plan on bypassing the Solenoid, and connecting the battery to the circuit as intended, instead of directly to the starter. Hopefully it will start and I can assume that the Soelnoid is bad.

Thanks

 

[Cofe]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

When you put your ground directly on the starter housing it worked. This indicates a bad ground connection on the motor. I have seen what looks like a good clean connection on the ground, only to remove it and find oxidation under the lead and on the bolt threads.

 

[sah440]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

When you put your ground directly on the starter housing it worked. This indicates a bad ground connection on the motor. I have seen what looks like a good clean connection on the ground, only to remove it and find oxidation under the lead and on the bolt threads.

Believe me, I took the ground off. It was clean as a whistle, and I cleaned it anyways. I really dont think that this is the issue. What do you think about the starter working when i supply power to one side of the Solenoid but not the other???

 

[dew2]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

once again Have you bypassed the solenoid? take a pliers touch it to the hot wire on the side of the solenoid while holding it there touch it to the out wire that goes to the starter,If that turns the motor,You either have a bad solenoid or the small wire to the switch has a bad connection. the voltage will not hurt you you wont even feel it.

 

[Cofe]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Here is a solenoid test.

 

[milliesdad]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Try a known good solenoid, fully charged battery (have "new battery"load tested AutoZone,NAPA,ect). I've seen bad new batteries. You should have a bit more than 12 volts on a fully charged battery-12.5 to 13.25.

 

[jasper60103]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

Believe me, I took the ground off. It was clean as a whistle, and I cleaned it anyways. I really dont think that this is the issue. What do you think about the starter working when i supply power to one side of the Solenoid but not the other???

Since it works when you bypass the solenoid, that leads me to suspect the solenoid is not grounded.
And solenoid gets it's ground through the neutral safety switch. So my first question is... Is the motor in neutral? If so, check the resistance from the neutral saftey switch to ground (engine block). It should be zero or very close.

 

[sah440]

Re: ELECTRIC START - looking for expert feedback

bump

Ok, I got the starter working.. good news. The motor was turning over but there was no combustion. I put an in-line spark checker on the plug, turned it over, and it was getting pretty good spark, but no combustion. Here is the wierd part. I pulled the choke, attempted to start it and nothing happened. The starter did not even move. So I pushed the choke back in and it still will not respond.... it won't do anything since i have pulled the choke and tried to start it.

The only electrical component associated to the choke/carb is the solenoid to my knowledge.. I understand there is probably a problem with the fuel injection since there was spark but no combustion. But right now Im still trying to troubleshoot the electrical problems. Any suggestions??