Electric or hydraulic brakes

[Realgun]

Bought me a New Tow vehicle and now I HAVE to get brakes. The Chevy can't stop a trailer over 1000 Lbs without them I guess.<br /><br />Makes me mad!<br /><br />So I have a choice and is vey limited do to 12 inch wheels and 4 bolt pattern not 5.<br /><br />I can go Electric or hydraulic.<br /><br />I only launch fresh water about 10 times a year. My pulling distances are long. A short trip is 200 miles round, long is 450 miles round.<br /><br />Shoe and drum assembly is 179 dollars. Either hydraulic or electric.<br /><br />Controler for electric plus instalation with new wires and connectors is 150 or more.<br /><br />Lines and the surge cylinder is 150 or more.<br /><br />What would you do?

 

[rwidman]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

Hydraulic surge brakes will hold up much better on a boat trailer that is dunked in water. Also, a trailer equipped with surge brakes can be towed by any capable tow vehicle, a trailer with electric brakes cannot.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

With a relatively light trailer, hydraulic surge drums work pretty well, you just have to keep them in adjustment. As Ron said, if you stick with surge any truck/car that is rated to tow can be used, otherwise you'd have to get another vehicle wired for electric brakes if you couldn't use your own tow vehicle. Also most trailer mechanics are familiar with surge brakes and know how to fix them if you need a repair done on a trip sometime. Freshwater, you should not have big problems with surge drums.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

There is a third alternative, mechanical.<br /><br />Electric: Pros - trailer brakes can be activated manually. Reverse lockout. Cons - rust/corrosion!! (magnets & electrical connections)<br /><br />Hydraulic: Pros - (disc) never need to adjust. Easy to maintain. Effective. Cons - Expensive to repair.<br /><br />Mechanical: Pros - (Disc)Cheapest initial cost. Handbrake won't fade. Breakaway protection.<br />Cons - ??

 

[jeff_nicholas]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

I've had boat trailer surge drum and disc for over 45,000 trailer miles. I've pulled a camper w/ electric brakes for 15,000 miles. Of the 3 types, I prefer electric hands down.<br /><br />I'm presently converting my boat trailer to these:<br /><br /> http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/upkeep/electricbrakes.asp <br /><br />I bought a Prodigy controller on eBay for $87... includes shipping. If you figure the price of the hydraulic coupler vs the fixed coupler, you'll already be ahead after purchasing the controller.<br /><br />Electric installation is 4 bolts and a wire, hydraulic is 4 bolts w/ hydraulic lines and fittings and a coupler w/ moving parts - requires bleeding.<br /><br />Folks have suggested that it is best to replace vs rebuild trailer brakes when necessary and I concur - see note on installation.<br /><br />The unknown for me at this point is how well the 'new' electric boat trailer brakes will hold up in salt water, so I'm gonna find out.<br /><br />

 

[rwidman]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

Originally posted by Dunaruna:<br /> There is a third alternative, mechanical.<br /><br />Electric: Pros - trailer brakes can be activated manually. Reverse lockout. Cons - rust/corrosion!! (magnets & electrical connections)<br /><br />Hydraulic: Pros - (disc) never need to adjust. Easy to maintain. Effective. Cons - Expensive to repair.<br /><br />Mechanical: Pros - (Disc)Cheapest initial cost. Handbrake won't fade. Breakaway protection.<br />Cons - ??

Mechanical trailer brakes? Please elaborate.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

I for one will never have a set of drum brakes on a trailer ever again let alone for use in SW. <br /><br />If it wasn't the adjuster needing replaced every spring because it was froze solid I was sitting along side the road waiting for the drums to cool down enough so I could get them off the axle to get at a frozen brake cylinder. <br /><br />Tired using a flush kit described in the electric brake article an that was more pain than it was worth. For the kit to be even remotely effective you had to flush the trailer each and every time it touched the water. Just how practical is it to get to the ramp, put your boat in the water, and then flush your trailer before parking it? Not to mention you’ll have to repeat the process on your return.<br /><br />I changed over to disc brakes 3 years ago and have not had a failure or need to flush since. The installation was quick and easy was the increased cost was minimal. No rust, no flush and better braking performance. What more would you want. Just hook up and drive away. <br /><br />I’ve got electric brakes on the horse trailer and I admit I like them and they work well but I don’t see how they wouldn’t end up not having the same issues you would with any drum brake system. The brake mechanism will still rust and you’ll end up with all the same problems that are typically seen with a conventional drum setup. gain<br /><br />The sales gimmick with the break away feature of the electric brakes has a catch. What they don’t tell you is that it relies on a small battery that is tucked up under trailer somewhere. The battery is supposedly recharged each and every time every time you use the trailer via the brake control cable but in reality you can count on replacing this $30 battery at least once a year. They some how fail to mention this in the sales brochure.<br /><br />The surge system utilizes a “breakaway” cable to manually lock the brakes and it quite effective and requires little or no maintenance to maintain. I can tell you from experience that it works well, sometimes too well as I’ve found out.

 

[jeff_nicholas]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

dingbat:<br /><br />You may be right about the drum brake hardware problems w/ salt water - I'm hoping that the new stainless springs etc and galvanizing will help. My brand new Tiedown stainless disc brakes (w/ brand new coupler) failed 2,000 miles into the 13,000 mile Alaska trip...pads wore totally out and destroyed the rotors; never a sign of overheating - the other boat trailer had drum brakes and came home in perfect condition. <br /><br />Curious about that frozen brake cylinder you refered to - where is it?<br /><br />I've already rigged my boat battery to power the break-away system.<br /><br />

 

[ndemge]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

I love electric brakes.<br /><br />If you get into a situation with some wag, you can reach down and tap the controller.... or if you get in a real panic stop, you can crank the trailer and stop really quick. ... this assumes you're really familiiar with your own controller.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

I think the TieDown Galvax drum brakes are pretty corrosion resistant, I have had then in salt water about 8-10 times so far, so good. I do use the flush system and I rigged up a trailer brake flusher using a winterizing container and a livewell pump. Works great, I fill it with freshwater, and I power it from a jumper battery pack. The Galvax brakes use an aluminum wheel cylinder which is more corrosion resistant than cast iron. The problem is that salt water can get under the rubber boot and rust up the pushrod. If you have problems you can buy 2 new wheel cylinders (aluminum) and remove the rubber boot, pack the area with marine trailer grease (or OMC Triple guard waterproof grease) and that will help a lot. I live in a hilly area and the problem with discs is that in a surge system, they are on all the time going down hill, at least drums have the return springs to pull back the shoes. I think electric over hydraulic with stainless discs would be the best, but most complex and costly. If I get 3-4 seasons out of the drums, at $130 a pair to replace, that is good for anything used in salt water.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

I did the stainless hardware and the aluminum wheel cylinder bit. Both where improvements over the previous designs but they still don't hold up well the SW.<br /><br />As far as dics goes, I had the same experience with my first set of disk. I did a couple of trips and everything was good and then I came home one day and noticed brake fluid on the tire. Further inspection found that my pads where gone and my calipers where melted from the heat. I had absolutely no indication that something was wrong whatsoever.<br /><br /> I got on the phone with TieDown explained the situation and was advised that more than likely I had somehow partially engaged the breakawy feature and thus the failure. A quick inspection of the coupler found just that. The breakaway latch was partially activated which didn’t allow the brake cylinder to return to the fully closed position.<br /><br />I reconstructed the events leading up the failure and everything pretty much feel into place. The night before the trip I went out and bleed the brakes as they still felt a wee bit spongy. The only thing I can figure is that while I had the screw drive in there pumping up the brakes I somehow partially activated the emergency lock and started the whole process in motion.<br /><br />Since I was to blame for this one I bought new calibers and brakes and rebuilt the system. Paranoid, I checked the system each and every outing and found that the brakes where still building up more heat than I thought they should. I talked with several people about it and everyone told me that they all normally ran hot so I didn’t pay much attention to it. <br /><br />Then one day I decided to bleed the brakes again for good measure and found just the smallest bit of air in the system. I bled that off and low and behold my braking performance increased and the brakes considerably cooler than before. Then it came to me. Disc brakes don’t use springs to retract the pads from the disc so they totally rely on the vacuum created when the brake cylinder retracts from the actuated position. Any air whatsoever let in the brake lines will interfere with this process and allow the pads to drag on the disk generating heat. I can now run 50 miles down the road now and as long as I don’t do any hard braking my brake axles don’t run much hotter than my none brake axles.

 

[jlinder]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

A good test of the surge brakes is to use a 2x4. Wrap the safety chains around the 2x4 and use it as a lever to push in the coupler. You get a good feel for how the brakes are working.<br /><br />It should go in partway then be pretty solid. If you feel resistance then you can push the coupler in until it hits the end you have a problem.<br /><br />I found it very helpful to test that way (it is also how I pump the brakes to bleed them)

 

[Triton II]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

Mechanical trailer brakes? Please elaborate. <br /><br />

Mechanical brakes are disc brakes activated by a system of levers, wires and pulleys. Very simple, very effective plus easy to wash down (everything's exposed behind the wheels and there are no drums to trap water). The brakes are progressively activated by the forces generated by the boat and trailer pushing forward against the hitch when the car brakes.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

OK, I've never seen or heard of mechanical brakes on a boat trailer or seen them offered on the typical trailer parts websites. I guess the're not common in the US. <br /><br />How would one allow for wheel motion and how would they be locked out for backing (done with a solenoid valve for hydraulic disk brakes)?

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

Only forward motion activates the brakes. In reverse, there is not 'surge'.<br /><br />What do you mean by 'wheel motion'? <br /><br />Aldo

 

[jlinder]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

Sounds like surge brakes with mechanical levers and cables instead of hydrolic fluid. Is that right?<br /><br />On your car that is the emergency brake and it has much less stopping power than your regular brakes.<br /><br />Also seems like it would be prone to the same problems as hydrolic surge brakes.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

Originally posted by Jack L:<br /> Sounds like surge brakes with mechanical levers and cables instead of hydrolic fluid. Is that right?<br />

BINGO!<br /><br />They are relatively new on the market but early indications show promise.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[rwidman]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

Originally posted by Dunaruna:<br /> What do you mean by 'wheel motion'? <br /><br />Aldo

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well. The up and down motion of the axles attached to the springs. With hydraulics this is accomplished by flexible hydraulic hoses.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

oops! Trying to get used to a new computer with a touch pad.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Electric or hydraulic brakes

O/K, now I understand.<br /><br />The cable that is used is flexible SS. The suspension on a trailer does not travel much (compared to a car). The travel is an issue with rigid hydraulic pipe, but not cable.<br /><br />Aldo