EFI vs Carbs

jusdecul

Cadet
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
10
Oh, all the research I've put into this... If you ask a Mercury dealer, EFI is the best. If you ask a Honda dealer, you don't really need it and it's expensive to fix compared to a carburator.<br /><br />When asked why Honda didn't make a FI engine, my dealer told me he had asked the Honda rep that same question... answer... "How many engines do you sell a year? 145... How many need fixin'? None! There's your answer." Apparently Honda doesn't even plan making the switch to FI for lower units. <br /><br />Next, since there are really only 3 major 4-stroke fabricators (Honda-Yams-Suzuki), why do the 2 last build their own engines with carbs while they supply FI for Merc and Johnson?<br /><br />I've decided to go with the Honda BF30 for my boat. I believe the resell value will be higher than with a Merc.<br /><br />Are there any NO... DON'T-DO-ITs out there?
 

terrysulli

Recruit
Joined
Apr 25, 2002
Messages
4
Re: EFI vs Carbs

Yes do it, I think your making the right decision going with carbs. Thats what I was going to do last spring but I was told by many that EFI was the most reliable.<br />Well I purchased a Merc EFI and so far it has been a pain in the :mad: . It runs rough in gear at the 'ECM' preset idle speed...750rpms. If I move the throttle to 850 it smooths right out. When Im departing or docking I like to be as slow as possible but the ECM is not adjustable and the throttle is to sticky to be trying to adjust rpms while near the dock. <br />My dealer had it for 9wks at the end of last season and could not make it run smooth. This spring I am taking it to another dealer recomended by Merc for another try. They assure me that they can fix it. :confused: :confused:
 

tgodiver

Seaman
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Messages
54
Re: EFI vs Carbs

I was under the impression that EFI will provide better fuel economy. <br /><br />I replaced a Yamaha 200 hp careburetor with Yamaha 225 HP EFI. I don't know what the difference will be yet since I haven't ran it.<br /><br />Anyone know?
 

jim dozier

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
1,970
Re: EFI vs Carbs

Terrysulli just a thought, I have no knowledge or experinence with the Mercury or any outboard EFIs, but quite a bit with my Honda Car EFI. I'm guessing that they are similar setups. If not someone will probably speak up. On the cars anyway, the throttle bodies have a throttle plate just like a carb and a little set screw for a stop at idle, these can if necessary be moved. Also, idle speed can be adjusted with the idle air bypass screw similar to some carbs (it doesn't change the mixture just the air bypassing the throttle plate) and this is normally how you set the idle if it needs changing on my car. Is there something similar on the Merc? I do know that cars run a whole lot better with EFI than carbs. An old saying is a carburetor is a device for supply incorrect mixtures at all speeds.
 

NathanY

Commander
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Messages
2,408
Re: EFI vs Carbs

Another consideration is that EFI technology is still very new, and is only about 20years old even in cars where as Carb technology is 100 years old. They have had time to perfect the carb system. Just wait, EFI will come around.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: EFI vs Carbs

Howdy, PCET.<br /><br />In that range of 4 strokes I would select the Merc EFI 30.<br /><br />Honda doesn't put EFI in their smaller engines because they haven't managed to get their EFI system light enough. Notice that their EFI 115 and 130 weigh 80 to 100lb more than their EFI competition.<br /><br />EFI offers improved fuel management, starting and emissions over carbs because of the computer control. I expect better reliability and longer life than carbed engines, too.<br /><br />Terry's Merc needs service. What he describes is not normal and should not be taken as typical for that engine.<br /><br />Though the Hondas are very good engines, I recommend EFI. I have an EFI Suzi DF70 and it is the best outboard I have owned in 50 years.<br /><br />Good luck. :)
 

bret walters

Seaman
Joined
Mar 2, 2003
Messages
73
Re: EFI vs Carbs

here are a few thought provokers.<br />when was the last time anyone flooded there late model car. how about vapor lock. stuck dirty choke not working. watch out everyone the 21st. century is here. efi is not new technology it is tried and proven. carbs are cheap to build, this makes carb. models cheaper to sell than efi. no auto manufacturer build a carb. usa model car or truck. efi and dfi are the best choice for most boaters. very remote users in canada and alaska like carbs because of parts availiblity and lack of need tech equipment and training. <br />of course i am sure someone out there still thinks breaker points are as hi- tech as we need for ignition too. ---- 2003---- :D
 

Skinnywater

Commander
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,065
Re: EFI vs Carbs

Partial repost.<br />Having diagnosed, repaired and maintained fuel injection engines since the early '70's I'd agree that fuel injection is far superior then carbs 98% of the time. Then it would depend on the fuel injection system and its application. And It also depends on the carburation system and its application.<br />Here are some fuel injection factors i took into account. Fuel injection is the cats meow as long as it is working. Once it fails it generally takes testing equipment, a wiring diagram/diagnostic flow charts, a high degree of training/expertise and TIME to diagnose it. Once the correct (costly)diagnosis is made, the part will usually be very costly. While FI is miles more efficient, individual components of the FI can be troublesome. The finest FI systems in the world have ample failures of components like mass airflow sensors, pressure sensors, temp sensors, TPS sensors, injector spray problems and high/low pressure pumps. <br />Logically, the pros and cons would be different between my automobile and my boat motor. <br />My experiences with FI is actually greater then carbs. However, carburators are simple, easy and fast (less costly)to diagnose and repair. In the case of Honda, who has decades of multiple carburator experience have some of the best, troublefree and durable carburators in the world. A little water or debris in a fuel injection system and it will cost you SEVERAL hundreds, if not more for repairs, and won't be covered under warranty. If you get the same in a carb system, a filter, MAYBE a gasket set or two and some compressed air and your fishing again.<br /><br />Miles up a river or miles out at sea, far from help, if a part fails on a FI successful emergency repair is very rare. However,a stuck float or debris in a carburator may only take a simple tap of a screwdriver handle or a simple removal of a carburator bowl with that same screwdriver. If a high pressure fuel pump or an electrical fault in the fuel pump circut on a FI engine, your dead in the water. On a carburated engine you (have your wife)pump the bulb to get home.<br /><br />One of the first maintenance tools I bought for my BF50 was a $40 manometer that is used to balance/syncronize my tri-carb setup to near perfection once a year. This is a three screw, 30 minute operation.<br /><br />As I've mentioned before, cold starts are a simple lift the choke lever...turn ignitionkey...crank..1001, 1002, 1003ENGINESTARTS!!!, high idle for 5-20 seconds depending on temp and I'm backing away from the launch. River guides, jetskiers, dock fishermen, other boaters, I can just barely hear thier comments above my idle that have words like, nice,smooth or Honda, along with a nod of approval.<br />Hotstarts are a simple twist of the key and 1-2 seconds of crank time immediately to a smooth idle.<br />Honestly, my carburated Honda has started, idled, ran and performed identical to a fuel injected motor EXCEPT with the following differences.<br />1. I have to lift a choke lever and hold at the desired high RPM for cold starts.<br />2. I've had to syncronize my carbs at the 20 hr. break-in service (myself), once in the 97 hours my motor has on it.<br />3.A carburator adjustment CHECK is called for every 100 hrs. With or without possible actual adjustments. <br /><br />The application was the factor for me. Since I fix engines all day long, weeks and years at a time. I surely didn't want to be fixin' on the river. From lawn mowers to Indy cars, Honda is the worlds largest engine manufacture with a deserved reputation. It seems I figured correctly when I thought that if Honda put carbs on it, it would work just fine. <br /><br />One things for sure though. The most important consideration is your dealers reputation in after sales needs. Most all new marine products are good these days. And whatever you decide on, you'll be bragging it up. ;)
 

jusdecul

Cadet
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
10
Re: EFI vs Carbs

Thanks for all the answers... Skinnywater, you make a lot of sence and addressed the question from both sides. :) <br /><br />But, through this post and others, I see nothing to make me reconsider though. I still don't see the NEED for EFI. <br /><br />It's new... yes.<br />It's got an easier start-up... fine.<br />It's got better fuel economy... than regular 2-stroke, maybe. Better fuel economy than comparative 4-stroke, at the end of the year, I'll be able to afford a pack of gum!<br /><br />I can appreciate that Honda hasn't made the switch to FI because of weight since they pride themslves on having the lightest engines... but that's still 70 lbs lighter than merc's equivalent . That's 50% heavier. And 70lbs on the back end of a boat does make a difference.<br /><br />So, seeing that there is no great advantage to EFI other than a slightly better way to make an engine work, I think I prefer having a Honda behind me. Plus it looks soooo much better. :cool:
 
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