eBay Tilt/Trim Assemblies and a question about mine

[QuadManiac]

Hey Ritt, that's you selling these on eBay, isn't it?

I finally got around to installing the correct 1441 adapter on my tilt cylinder (you told me about it here, last month, thanks).

Question for you:

Just prior to going out to Lake Mojave/Laughlin for 5 days in July, I noticed that the tilt cylinder was leaking down... maybe 60 seconds from full up till it hit the travel lock. Last day at the lake, when I goosed reverse, the upper fitting on the tilt cylinder (the 1441) grenaded. Finished fixing it yesterday, refilled with fluid, worked it up and down, maybe 10 times. Great!

Now the leakdown seems to have gone away. It sat proudly at the full up position yesterday for at least 10 minutes, before I got bored and went on to other things.

Is this explained by, perhaps, low fluid level prior to the fitting letting go, or a tiny leak in the fitting prior to its total destruction? The top line pushes down, not holds up, so I don't see how that would affect leakdown unless it was allowing air into the system. I didn't see any oil in the area... so I'm wondering if there is any other obvious reason. It certainly seems to have self corrected.

Thanks for your help!

 

[RRitt]

Re: eBay Tilt/Trim Assemblies and a question about mine

yeah, that's me.

it is possible that your system self-corrected but doubtful. why would a piece of debris stick for so long and then decide to move clear at that time? if system is low on fluid then it just doesn't go up all the way. It may compress a bit but it shouldn't bleed down.

IMO - more likely your front manual release valve is weak. Assumming that you have an 87-90 it's time for motor & pump to give out anyway. The tilt piston is trapped between two layers of fluid. having fluid bleed out the bottom isn't enough to create bleed down. It has to bleed in from the top as well. There is a spring that pushes needle against seat. It has an inherent limiting effect even in the "backwards" direction. My guess would be that once you fixed the air leak the combined effect of restricting both top and bottom fluid flow is enough to limit bleeding. If my guess it right then it should still bleed down but much more slowly. How you fill the resevoir (up or down) can even have some effect once the system is airtight. A perfectly healthy system can take about 80-90 lbs downward force (at prop) on a 25" shaft. If you're in the mood to find out then lift engine and hang a cinder block on it. It should hold solid for days. But even if it holds you should still block up your engine for trailering & storage.

something sounds off with 1441 exploding. the release valves on tilt piston should have opened up long before you exceeded 1441's pressure capacity.

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: eBay Tilt/Trim Assemblies and a question about mine

So there is a valve in the piston of the tilt piston assembly that opens at overpressure? Is that in either direction?

One speculation on clearing debris: the system was full of air, after blowing the 1441 and my subsequent attempts to use the tilt prior to my discovery of the failure. Upon my repair of the failure and refill of the reservoir, the first flow out of the pump was likely at a much higher flow rate, due to the lack of back pressure because all that air was in there. Is it possible that the additional flow flushed a partcle out of a check valve? (I know, pure speculation)

I too was surprised by the 1441 failure. I assumed that, at one point, someone overtightened it, perhaps creating some micro cracks, that worsened with time and exposure. Can't think of much else, unless it took a good hit at one time or another.

And one more, that maybe should go in 'Stupid Human Tricks':

When I first re-assembled my tilt assy, I inadvertently screwed the bottom tube from the tilt piston into the SECOND hole from the back on the pump, instead of the furthest back hole. Of course, the second I pressed the up switch, I had a deluge of oil coming from the rear most hole. I realized my error, and with significant embarrassment (several people were watching), I unscrewed the tube's fitting and moved it back where it belonged. All was well after that. What is that second hole from the rear, and can my inadvertent mistake have caused any long term damage?

BTW, mine's a 91. Does that just give me one more year, lol? Also, I always use the travel lock when its not in the water.

One more Q: Any significant difference between mine and a mid to late 70's Chrysler assembly for a similar sized engine - motor, pump, tilt, trim, shock, etc.? (it looks identical to me, except the power cable exiits at the front of the motor instead of towards center) I'd like to gather and personally rebuild a set of replacement parts, and I can get this full assembly (claimed to have been rebuilt 2 years ago) quite inexpensively. I'd appreciate your inputs and suggestions.

Thanks for your help!

 

[RRitt]

Re: eBay Tilt/Trim Assemblies and a question about mine

if you are talking about the original fitting then it was not a 1441. it was made from aluminum. the oil tubes are stainless. if your anode is neglected then the stainless can severely weaken the aluminum (or if you use in saltwater but don't wash down). it is more than possible for the original fitting to develop pits and cracks that cause it to burst.

yours is same system as earlier with different motor and oil tubes. motor is taller which makes ports 1/2" lower so the oil tubes are slightly different. older systems do not have permanent magnets. they have field windings to create electro-magnet. with permanent magnet you reverse direction by flipping polarity. with electro magnet you reverse direction by applying power to different set of windings. hence 3w systems have up, down, and ground. 2w systems just have 12v and gnd. depending on which way it is wired it spins either up or down.

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: eBay Tilt/Trim Assemblies and a question about mine

Assuming I'm smart enough to rewire for the dual windings (and I think I am), will they be compatible otherwise? Tilt and trim pistons the same?

Any answer to my question about screwing the lower tilt tube into the wrong hole?

 

[RRitt]

Re: eBay Tilt/Trim Assemblies and a question about mine

as long as you didn't strip threads then no damage from wrong tube in wrong hole.

your 2w motor with relay is a better set up than 3w because it keeps high electrical loads away from console. The motor is simpler design that is easier to fix and draws less amperage. The oil tubes already line up and won't need to be re-bent if you keep 2w. I see a lot of valve bodies with stripped ports because people try to swap motors without properly rebending tubes. The downside is that 2w has a plastic resevoir that is more difficult to attach mounting bolts and if you overtighten filler then you can strip threads. Also, if you go 3w then you have to run bulky wire from console to engine and make sure that your switch can handle 20A.

So why would you want to change?

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: eBay Tilt/Trim Assemblies and a question about mine

So why would you want to change?

I don't! I just want some spare parts lying around for when I have a problem. I got such a good deal on this entire assembly, I just wanted to verify that I hadn't thrown money away and that (even if I had to rewire) it all would work for me, if necessary.

Thanks again, for you help.