Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

Ralph 123

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Should there be a law that prevents drug companies from selling drugs cheaper in other countries than the US prices?
 

roscoe

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

Does anyone think that our (US) price wouold go down, if there was?<br /><br />Chances are, that prices in other countries would go up.<br />And our US prices would go up also, to offset the loss in volume in the foreign countries.<br /><br />Should we price control / price fix everything?
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

Another way to look at it is that US customers are subsidizing sales in other countries. The Japanese did the same thing in the 80s with electronics. They kept prices high at home (Japan)which allowed them to sell cheap abroad and steal market share and put domestic competitors out of business... We grant 17 years of patent protection and in exchange for that protection they overcharge US consumers while letting our "friends" get off cheap. There is no reason on Earth Canadians should be paying 30% - 40% less for the same drugs. The market is much smaller. The volume is much smaller. I am a free market, free trade guy but obvious manipulations should be dealt with. If they don't want fair pricing we should cut the length of patent protection by 1/2 to 2/3s so generics can come to market quicker.
 

phatmanmike

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

do we need to tell EVERY BODY in EVERY COUNTRY what to do with THEMSELVES?<br /><br />i think big brother needs to take a much needed vacation
 

bernieb

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

I had the honor to meet my daughters father -in-law this past week who owns a pharmaceutical company in New York.He owns his own jet ,but hires a pilot to take him wherever he wants to go. So at our private dinner I could read between the lines that this man was missing something in life besides being very rich.I promised my daughter that I would behave myself but me being a get down and dig in grouper fisherman with a carpenter background was a hell of a lot to ask.I guess it was when I had my second Margarita was when he ask me what I done for a living,I looked down at my curled fingers from being knocked out of place countless times and I studdered for a moment and said to myself (.... ..)So I started with ....one of my jobs through the years was to lay a very difficult floor (sheet goods)many cut outs and no seams.The boss told me the husband died here and the last thing the husband gave the wife was a parakeet and it was in the bedroom ,no problem I said .By myself I started on the floor and after glue down and rolling with a hundred lb roller I come across a hump in the floor.I smacked my face in shock ,then I cut a slice in the floor and saw red,blue,white,I then commenced to pound away with a 5lb rubber mallet,swearing that I wasn't going to be fired.Floor began to look good again and I felt relieved and upon leaving I saw the parakee sitting on the couch back through the window as I was patting a (missing) empty pack of Vantage cig. that wasn't there.The O'l boy was so sophiscicated he was afraid to laugh .If only I could get him on one grouper outing.
 

hayhauler

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

I too am against price controls, but the drug companies do seem to be taking advantage of the American system. Something probably should be done, and maybe limiting the amount of time that they have a monopoly on a new med is one answer. I understand that there is a lot of research expense, but if they can sell it for less in other countries than they can here something's messed up.
 

JB

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

Interesting to see a mostly "conservative" group vote in favor of government meddling in free enterprize.<br /><br /><br />I wonder what is different here. Do people think they are required to buy overpriced products?<br /><br />I wonder what would happen to the cost of "health care" if patients and physicians got in the habit of saying "no" to costly optional procedures and treatments that turn them into paupers or drive their premiums into the stratosphere.<br /><br />My previous Doc had me on a $300/mo. list of drugs (probably $500/mo. now). My current Doc has me on aspirin and one, $7.50/mo prescription drug.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

Excellent link SW - a damning indictment.<br /><br />JB - read that link when you get a chance. There isn't too much about this particular market that qualifies as "free enterprise"<br /><br />It's a really tough question. On the one hand, patent protection distorts the free market because it grants a state enforced monopoly. On the other hand, patent protection encourages innovation. And, to make it even more complex, the products being protected (drugs) are in many cases not an optional purchase. You can't simply elect not to purchase them or use a substitute. Most people are not in a position to safely challenge the advice of their doctor(s).<br /><br />Maybe there is a compromise. Lifestyle drugs (i.e., the Viagra type drugs) remain as today while "life & death" drugs only get 5 years of protection from date of introduction or 17 years with "one price for all." <br /><br />The drug companies need to realize that sooner or later a "Kerry" type is going to gain power and impose some radical solution. Better to embrace some moderate solutions now and diffuse the issue.
 

JB

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

Having served the drug research industry and the FDA for several years, I am aware of the astronomical cost of discovering and developing new drugs, and the cost of searching for and "developing" products that don't work or don't get FDA approval.<br /><br />Thus I have no problem with the need to recover these costs in marketing drugs that get FDA approval. I don't even have a problem with variations in pricing to "what the market will bear". That is free enterprise.<br /><br />I do have a problem with the degree to which our government tries to regulate the market and the notion that more regulation would be "better".<br /><br />If the government was not in the business of "taking care" of patients lobbyists would not have a job.<br /><br />Physicians, under the threat of litigation, often prescribe anything that might help and damn the cost. After all, it is the patient's (or the insurer's) money, not the physician's.<br /><br />Many patients, like myself, understand that what a physician gives is advice, not orders. They are not devine or even infallible. Of course, I don't plan to sue my Doc if something she advises doesn't work. I didn't even sue my previous Doc when the combinations of expensive drugs he prescribed darn near killed me.<br /><br />The liberal left has demonized the drug industry and its lobbyists in order to create a monster that they can save us from with more and bigger government.<br /><br />I am embarrassed that so many of my conservative friends have fallen for it.
 

1730V

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

JB is right on. Drugs may be cheaper in other countries for a couple of reasons. One is that they probably were not developed there. The other is that the threat of lawsuits is much less.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

I hear you JB. However, common sense tells me that there is no justification for Canadians paying 50% less for the same drugs unless someone can show me how US regulations make the costs to produce higher. <br /><br />It is also very difficult to make a case that the normal market forces are applicable in the case of drugs. If you read that report, authored by the MN AG, it shows clearly that the market is being manipulated and even conservatives like TR the "Trust Buster" had no problem adjusting the playing field when clear manipulation was at work. Drug Cos wouldn't be so easy to demonize if it wasn't so easy to make the case.<br /><br />I agree with your assessment of Docs and the health system in general. However, most people in this country have little basis to question the advice of their caregivers. When competition is being limited by Gov regulation (through patent protection) Gov has to be part of the solution IMHO and I don't often make that case outside of National Defense.
 

Dave S3948

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

The main thing that aggravates me is that pharmacutical companies spend MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on advertising their drugs....and that has to drive up prices! :eek: :eek: I know companies exist to make a profit for their share holders. But adding all of this advertising cost to their expenses has to result in a higher mark up to consumers. Doctors should be the ones that are knowledgeable about the drugs they need to prescribe not the public.......the public can do all the research they want on the net and that is the prudent thing to do instead of listening to a commercial produced by a company that wants you to use their product! And no......I don't "ask my doctor" like every one of these commercials mentions. :mad: :mad: If the government wants to do something, let them pass legislation to eliminate this advertising and pass the savings on to the general public!<br /><br />The reason I am so adament about all of this is that my annual health insurance cost for my wife and I is $14,000 :eek: ....and that only includes a small portion of our prescription medicine cost. I am very close to being one of those without health insurance because the cost is becomming almost too much......and no, I have no other cheaper alternative available to me.<br /><br />The health care industry in this country is in shambles as far as I am concerned and the drug companies only contribute to the excessive cost with their irresponsible advertising. :eek: :eek:
 

Bondo

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

I hear you JB. However, common sense tells me that there is no justification for Canadians paying 50% less for the same drugs unless someone can show me how US regulations make the costs to produce higher
Ralph,<br />It's the Canadian Laws .......<br />The Liberals of Canada that passed Price Control Laws ........ <br />The way I see it, We(the US) are Subsidizing the Canadian Health Care Industry, by Proxy.....<br /><br />It's got Nothing to do with US Laws.....
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

The way I see it, We(the US) are Subsidizing the Canadian Health Care Industry, by Proxy
Exactly Bondo. Exactly. However, the drug companies can't be forced to sell their products. The is no way Canada can force them to. They simply say, "if you want to sell here, here is what we'll pay" and because they do sell there they must be making money OR we are subsidizing unprofitable Canadian drug sales. Either way, it is intolerable wouldn't you agree? Either Candians should be paying more or we should be paying less...
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

The liberal left has demonized the drug industry and its lobbyists in order to create a monster that they can save us from with more and bigger government.<br />
In this case the liberal left and the conservative right need to get on the same page.<br /><br />There's plenty of sources (links, studys and sources) that address this problem past the first ten hits in your search engine.<br />I'm surprised that facts, research and findings, complete with backup sources would be touted by an academic as mere propaganda.<br /><br />Current events are showing there are a lot of states that are gearing up for some serious litigation against the feds.<br />The Supreme Court is finding "undue influence" here.<br />And as usual when you follow the money trail the truth usually found.<br /><br />Those that are trusting your representatives hype about R&D and litigation, educate yourselves. <br /><br /> http://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/PDF/pharmaceutical_research_report.pdf <br /><br />There's more on this from the CATO institute and many others. <br /><br />But one things for sure, don't look to your government for the truth here. There's to much money involved. And the proven agenda here, from the left and right, is socialized heathcare.<br />The intent is to screw it up as bad as they can so big brother can come to the rescue.<br /><br />And this is what "conservatives" are falling for, sadly.<br /><br />Ralph, you want to do one on Foriegn Aid and Subsidies next? :D
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

The way I see it, We(the US) are Subsidizing the Canadian Health Care Industry, by Proxy
It's worse then that. The taxpayer is subsidizing the Pharm's in R&D and tax credits.<br />The money they get from these subsidies, instead of using them for R&D, they use it to give back to your representatives in campaign contributions and marketing.<br />All the while, they get legislation passed to protect them from litigation and legitamate competition.<br /><br />Such a SWEEEEET DEAL!!!
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

It's worse then that. The taxpayer is subsidizing the Pharm's in R&D and tax credits.
That, and the Taxol example surprised me the most. <br /><br />
But one things for sure, don't look to your government for the truth here. There's to much money involved. And the proven agenda here, from the left and right, is socialized heathcare.<br />The intent is to screw it up as bad as they can so big brother can come to the rescue.
I hope your wrong on this one but I fear you may be right. And, as states begin to take them on, the money will flood in to corrupt those battles as well.<br /><br />If Bush wanted to become really great he'd tackle this in a second term when their money couldn't be used to defeat him. Healthcare costs are limiting the growth of the economy. They are forcing companies to hire less and outsource more. Comprehensive reform is in order. If he focused on just healthcare and defense he'd become great.
 

lakelivin

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

I worked in the pharm. industry for over 15 years. My belief is that reform is needed not just for pharmaceuticals, but for the medical profession in general.<br /><br />Lets face it, the general free market system just doesn't apply when it comes to health care. The vast majority of people don't (and have limited ways to) compare value (price vs. benefit) when it comes to health care. <br /><br />When was the last time you asked what a needed procedure or med was going to cost and then compared the costs of different potential providers (or alternative meds to the prescribed one)? And even if you tried to do so, how would the average consumer get an objective evaluation of the relative quality of care across different providers? Or the relative merits of one drug vs. another so you could make a rational cost/ benefit analysis? <br /><br />I believe strongly in the free market system, just wish we could figure out a way to make it work effectively in the health care field given our culture and the current environment.<br /><br />The cost of research & development is tremendous. Look at where we are with respect to advances in pharmaceuticals and the improvements they have brought about in terms of quality of life (or even saving lives). Remember back when having an ulcer meant major surgery? Now most ulcers are cured using a relatively short term medicinal regimen. <br /><br />I believe that any solution that significantly reduces the incentive for pharmaceutical R&D could be far more detrimental in the long run than the financial relief to consumers in the short term. <br /><br />Agree with the poster about the money being spent on advertising and marketing. If the ads were truely educational and objective, great, perhaps that could be a part of the solution to consumer education regarding cost/ benefit analysis. As it is, they're pure marketing spin(how does showing a hot air balloon flying over fields of flowers educate me about the relevent benefits of a particular allergy med?). This is one area where I could see regulation leading to a clear benefit for consumers. <br /><br />Couple of other points: <br /><br />There is a real difference in the way pharmaceuticals are treated vs. other health care by the insurance industry. Meds are often an add on, perhaps starting to get more attention, but with nowhere near the general coverage provided for medical procedures in most health care plans. I suspect that's one of the main reasons we're hearing more noise about meds than other medical services right now. I suspect that evening the playing field between the way meds and other health care procedures are treated by the insurance industry might have a very positive effect for the consumer in general. <br /><br />I had a hernia repair a couple of years ago. Fortunately I had insurance, but when I looked at the bill and compared what the total cost would have been for me vs. what the insurance company actually paid I was shocked. Basically, the insurance company negotiated the charges down by a hugh amount that I, as an individual, wouldn't have been able to. In a sense you can think or it as individuals without insurance subsidizing the treatment of patients with insurance. After all, the hostipal has to make a profit, and if they weren't able to charge individuals w/o insurance so much they wouldnn't be able to offer insurers the tremendous discounts that they do.<br /><br />Lastly, litigation. Yes, it's urgent that we find a solution to the skyrocketing costs of medical liability insurance and a way to eliminate frivolous medical lawsuits. But we also need to be careful that we don't limit patient rights in cases of true negligence! I've heard of too many cases where incompetent medical personnel have moved from job to job, causing more & more damage as they go, because of a trend in the industry to bury/ hide instances of negligence and malefeasence. Or take the example of the moron who left his patient cut open on the operating table for something like an hour or two while he ran out to mail a letter (I know I don't have the details right, but it's close enough to give you the gist of what happened). I'm just saying the solution has to be able to differentiate between those cases that are black or white vs. those that are grey and handle them accordingly. <br /><br />Ah well, one persons thoughts, flame away if you'd like. Already spent too much time typing this vs. redoing the teak swim platform on my boat. (I've got an older boat, but to me well maintained teak carries a touch of quality/ class that is hard to match regardles of the cost or newness of a boat).
 

JB

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Re: Drug Company Pricing Should there be a Law?

I heartily agree that the entire "health care" industry needs major reform.<br /><br />Step one is to educate the consumer of their services and products that they vary in quality and value as much as a Mercedes and a Yugo. Further, that they vary in necessesity as much as air and bubble gum.<br /><br />My three daughters, my former wife (retired) and both of my sons-in-law are are health caregivers. They tell me that market skepticism would do more to reduce the costs of health care than all the liberal Congresspeople in Washington.<br /><br />For example, consider this question: What do they call the graduate who finishes last in standing at Medical School?<br /><br />Yep, that's right. They call him/her "Doctor".
 
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