Drivers License (Rant)

BoatBuoy

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 29, 2004
Messages
4,856
This was inspired by another thread. What is the deal with driving w/o license. It seems that a high percentage of the news stories that somehow involve a vehicle, also involve an unlicensed/suspended-licensed driver. Why are there so many, and why are the penalties not stiff enough to prohibit it? Sometimes it involves repeated offenses. Why are not the penalties progressively stiff?
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
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Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Drivers License (Rant)

That's because the no license thing makes it newsworthy........You never hear them mention that someone was a legal driver, do you....The penalties do get stiffer.......Many people can't afford to pay a ticket & get suspended, get stopped again & it snowballs from there......It's about the lawyers & money for the court system.....Once DMV has you in there clutches, they don't let go so easily.....Kinda like a tick.......JK
 

rwise

Captain
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Jul 5, 2001
Messages
3,205
Re: Drivers License (Rant)

ever try to walk 30 miles to work each day? taking the drivers licence just isn't going to keep people from there job, or the bar/s. Never has never will, chances of getting stopped are slim at best. Tell they get into another accident or whatever. Driving today is a must for most, so they'll take there chances.
 

Limited-Time

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Re: Drivers License (Rant)

Because there is not enough jail room hold all the offenders, and ya can't kill'em all. Criminals by definition have no respect for the law. Inflect property damage, pain, suffering and even death, by driving a car they should not be driving. Same old argument as stiffer gun laws. Laws only alter the actions those who choose to live by them. A criminal by nature does not abide by the laws they choose to ignore. :mad: :mad:
 

tommays

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Jul 4, 2004
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Re: Drivers License (Rant)

the main reason is they dont have room in jail for the people who dont pay the fines so unless you do some real dammage they let you slideeeeeeeee<br /><br />i cant say how it works else were but in NY the computer systems that link traffic courts toghter with the DMV and your insurance company DOES NOT WORK<br /><br />when you pay a ticket you better keep the paper work because i know many people that it comes back at YEARS later<br /><br />both the people who hit and ran me and were later caught did not have insurance amoung other things and nothing really happened to them<br /><br />tommays
 

Navigator

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Feb 6, 2001
Messages
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Re: Drivers License (Rant)

Around here in Florida, its not the unlicensed drivers, but the uninsured. FLorida requires that you only carry PIP insurance, no coverage for anyone else. Some places sell $20 policies that pay nothing. This is enough for the state. What this creates is a flurry of wreckless drivers with nothing to lose. They hit you, your uninsured motorist coverage covers your damage and your policy goes up because of it. No penalty for the offender.<br /><br />First they need to mandate full insurance for all vehicles...not just PIP. Give the insurance industry 10 days to report dropped insurance to the DMV. IF after 10 days, they fail to do this, make them liable for 100% of all costs until a new policy is issued by another insurance company. They dont report the drop, then they still insure 100%. If after 10 days a new policy is not recordesd with the state, the driver's license is revoked. Change driving without a license from a Misdemeanor to a Felony offense.<br />And lastly, what they need to do is to confiscate any car driven by unlicensed/uninsured motorists. Sort of like the police do in Drug raids. Vehicles are forfeited to the state. The cars should then be held for 15 days in case an error was made. Then they need to be sold at public auction and the monies funneled back to the police departments. Give it a year or two and the incident rate would go way down.<br /><br />Nav :cool:
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Drivers License (Rant)

If you have no drivers license, you are drunk, and you have no insurance, and you even steal the car you will not be put in jail, well, maybe overnight. These things now are just ticket offences. Go figure!
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,739
Re: Drivers License (Rant)

Wisconsin changed the traffic laws a couple years ago. Don't remember all the details right now, but it created a situation where just about any unpaid traffic ticket would result in a suspension of license. This is now a jailable offense. Lots of people didn't even know the law was changed or that their license was suspended until they were pulled over for something else. Many others have no alternative but to continue driving.<br /><br />A law that was supposed to encourage prompt payment of tickets, has flooded the court system and jails with many thousands of court cases for suspension violations.
 

18rabbit

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Nov 14, 2003
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Re: Drivers License (Rant)

Drivers license and vehicle registration only apply to commercial drivers transporting upon public hiways and vehicles being used for commercial transport of cargo or people for hire. All courts at all levels where this has come up have ruled that the personal use of public hiways to transport yourself, you vehicle, and your personal property are constitutionally protected, i.e you do not need a drvs lic or veh reg. One of the last court rulings on this (1957 or 1958) said basically the access and use of public roads for personal means was ”paramount to preserving the right to the pursuit of happiness.” The ‘pursuit of happiness’ is a constitutionally protected right.<br /><br />The requirement of a drv lic and veh reg was to generate revenue via a tax on commerce. All of that changed in 1958 when California created a ‘privilege’ to drive. This allowed the state to generate revenue (tax) everyone and every vehicle. All the other states saw the light and quickly followed suit. Although challenged, it had been upheld all the way to the Supreme Court, which will not hear the issue. The Supreme Court has a policy of not hearing any cases based on unconstitutional law if the unconstitutional law applies to everyone equally unconstitutionally. The SC will hear cases regarding unconstitutional law if the law creates classes of people, i.e. only white people must have drv lic … unless the unconstitutional law is well based in a safety issue.<br /><br />I’m not sure but I think driving w/o veh reg is an infraction and drving w/o a lic is a misdemeanor in California. Being charged with an infraction means you are accused of a crime but it isn’t serious enough that there is a need to preserve your constitutionally protected rights as an accused criminal, i.e. you don’t have the right to an atty or a trial by jury, or even to come before a real judge, etc. I recently heard there is a guy in New Mexico that has figured out how to walk thru all of the loop holes of an infraction. Supposedly, he has had something like 200 out of 200 traffic infractions dismissed because due process was not followed. Due process does apply to infractions as well as misdemeanor and felonies. After signing a ticket you must be arraigned within 48hrs. He claims without a timely arraignment there can be no hearing for the alleged infraction. So far, the NM courts have gone along with him. Ironically, if you refuse to sign a ticket the cop will haul you off to jail and you WILL be arraigned within 48hrs.<br /><br />In California, a third conviction for the same misdemeanor automatically escalates to a felony. So the third time you get popped for driving w/o a lic it is a felony. And the third conviction for the same felony has an automatic sentence of life in prison (3 strikes law). It’s amazing to me that we have arrived at a place where exercising a constitutionally protected right can get you life in prison. Same for people that are behind in their child support payments. For every month that a person is behind, it is a potential misdemeanor. Rack up enough months of being behind in your payments and you face the potential of life in prison. People that cannot afford excessively burdensome support payments are leaving the state. I have met people that will never be able to earn enough money in their lifetime to pay the arrears and the interest on their support payments. Oh, and people that are behind in their support payments have their driving privilege revoked. Their DMV record is tagged so if they move to another state they can’t get a dvr lic there, either. And their passport is revoked, too. They basically become a sub-class of people with their right to travel and move above freely restricted. I read that some people behind in their support payments are applying for asylum at foreign embassies. Don’t know if it is granted. Amazing, productive, law-biding American citizens need to seek asylum in foreign countries.<br /><br />Fwiw, a few months ago Wash state's Supreme Court struck down the suspension of dvr's lic for unpaid tix because it violated due process. In that case, the drvr had no way to appeal the DA's decision to suspend the lic, and it was possible for the DA's office to err and suspend the wrong lic.
 

18rabbit

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Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
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Re: Drivers License (Rant)

Forgot to mention (rant) about a friend that is here illegally from Mexico. Been here for 15-years, has 6 kids born here, no dvr’s lic ... because he is illegal. Works in construction, pays all of his taxes, doesn’t send any money to back to Mexico, basically making an honest living in the USA, following the American dream, not living off the back of tax payers, contributes to society, participates in community programs, and turns in his cousins (also illegal) if they commit any crime. He has been stopped 3 times while driving, each time they impound his vehicle, put him out on the street to walk home. The next day he pays the impound fees, gets his car back, and drives off. (a) the cops don’t cite him for not having a lic because he is an illegal alien, and (b) they don’t arrest/deport him for being here illegally. Go figure. He says not having a drv lic is more of an inconvenience than anything else. It's amazing, we have arrived at a point in time where an illegal alien has more rights than a citizen.
 

neumanns

Lieutenant Commander
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Mar 1, 2003
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Re: Drivers License (Rant)

Here in Mn the fine for a suspended licensce is less then the fine for running a stop sign. no added consequences.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Drivers License (Rant)

This was inspired by another thread. What is the deal with driving w/o license. It seems that a high percentage of the news stories that somehow involve a vehicle, also involve an unlicensed/suspended-licensed driver. Why are there so many, and why are the penalties not stiff enough to prohibit it? Sometimes it involves repeated offenses. Why are not the penalties progressively stiff?
Here, in Arizona, it is estimated that 45% of the drivers on the road are unlicensed AND uninsured. Why, because they are NOT citizens.<br /><br />Wake up people.
 
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