Down rigger rods. Where to begin?

KC8QVO

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I am interested in getting a couple of rods for downrigger use (IE- rod holders and trolling) on the great lakes. I have a few spinning and casting rods now, but they are all set up and configured for cast/release and jigging and do not have the tailstock/grip for riding in a holder.

My questions, and thread topic, are surrounding the rod sizes and line weights. Would it be safe to say a rod with 10lb test line would be a good starting point?

The break down of my rod selection now is as follows:
Berkley Pro Series One IM6 6ft up to 3/8oz lure - I have it set with a Shimano Sienna FD 1000 and 4lb line;
Fenwick HMG med/fast up to 3/4oz lure - I had it set with a Shimano Solstace 2500 and 10lb line;
Field & Stream Tech Spec 1oz-4oz lure, casting - I have it set with an Abu Garcia Ambassadeur open frame reel, I will have to look up the specs/model again but I believe it is a 5000 series. I have 40+lb braided line on it.

My Fenwick is my general purpose rod right now and does a good job with walleye, pike, and bass. I have been throwing the small sienna fd 1000 reel on it recently casting smaller lures for bass and it has done a good job. It also has reeled in some pike in the 20-30" range, but any bigger and it is not the right tool for the job. I'd think that same rod capacity would work well for walleye on a down rigger. Thoughts?

For bass and bluegill the Berkley is a good set up. It will take jigging for walleye also, but is over-taken with big walleye and bass.

The Field & Stream does a good job once the lures I am using are too big/heavy for the Fenwick. It throws Suick thrillers, big spoons, and other larger lures fine but starts to fade off with the bigger muskie lures.

Salmon is another species I'd like to set up for. I would think I need a heavier rod, like the Field & Stream, or bigger, as salmon can get pretty big. Is there any spec I can look at like lure weight or line weight range? I was looking at some Okumas (the Nomad travel series specifically) and it appears the ultra-light versions of those rods are still a more powerful rod than my fenwick is - and I got the fenwick because it is a heavier rod than the berkley I have. So I am at a bit of a loss here.

My thoughts, also, on a trolling rod are to go with casting as opposed to spinning. This might be like a truck discussion or a football team discussion, but I would be curious what your thoughts are. I have always thought a big fish rod should be a bait caster - and that stems from muskie fishing with my family.

For a lighter casting rod (in the 10lb range) I would need a new reel. For a heavier rod set up - would the Abu Garcia I have work OK with braided line?

Another, somewhat off-topic, question - what is the life expectancy of monofillament line? I had some rods in the tackle shed that had not had the line replaced in YEARS - maybe 10-15 years - and the line was very brittle. I got a large spool of 6lb test Triline this summer. I stripped the reels and rewound with the new line. They are all spinning rods and set up to jig for walleye with some cast fishing. All three rods have a label on them now with the line type and when I replaced it.
 

LongLine

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Nov 2, 2008
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Don't spend a lot of money on rigg'r rods, rather spend the extra bucks & get yourself some good reels with smooth sturdy drags. Almost any 7'6 to 8'6 medium action rod will suffice. Heartland rods are very popular on lake Ontario and won't break the bank at $30-40. Reels are usually in the $100 & up. Rigg'r fishing is a lot different than casting or fly fishing. The reel is more important than the rod here. Mono doesn't stand up to sunlight or hot sun very well. Personally I like the co-poly lines. They don't stretch nearly as bad as the mono especially in the rigg'r releases. The real stress on the line is not usua;lly the lure but the drag of the line in the water, especially from the bent rod to the release and from the release to the lure. A lot of guys use 30 Lb test, not because of the fish but because the sea fleas have a tough time sticking to it. Most salmon guys will use a 12-17 Lb fluro leader tied to the main line - anywhere from 8-20 ft long when running clean spoons. . The heavy lines will affect the lure action. Heavy lines also come into play if you're going to use a flasher fly combo. Light lines such as 8-10 can be used earlier in the spring, especially for browns and the smaller salmon.
\
Tom B.
(LongLine)
 

Starcraft5834

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I was out on Seneca lake today jigging for lakers w my 7ft ugly stik spinning rod w 12lb test. Put downrigger on used same rod...one quality rod per class of fish is more than enough...
 

KC8QVO

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Thanks for the info. OK on the reels being more important. I have seen some that have counters on them also. Any thoughts there? The downrigger we had came with a depth gauge on it so I am guessing that is pretty standard so for trolling a counter reel wouldn't matter much, but maybe for jigging? Are the counters based on line payed out or geared off the spool?

How about spool capacity (yards)? I would imagine if a big fish is caught on a light line you would need a lot more line, but is there any general rule of thumb? Now that I think about it - there were 2 versions of the bait caster reel I have. Mine is the smaller spool of the 2, same frame size just narrower = less line.
 

Georgesalmon

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We have 25 rods for salmon, steelhead, and lake trout trolling on Lk. Michigan. Started out with old Penn 209's, 309's and through the years upgraded all of them. The best stuff we have are the Shimano talora rods and tecota reels but very pricy, about $300+ a rig. I think the best bet for the price are the Okuma magda reels and associated rods, inexpensive and pretty good stuff. Then we continually up grade as we can afford to the Okuma Convectors and then to the Catalinas. I always buy the reels with line counters. They aren't 100% accurate as the line is a little bit less as the reel turns but close enough and the repeatability is what you want anyway. We run lines back from the downriggers from 10' to as much as 150' depending on conditions. Its nice to be able to repeat the settings as you start to catch fish. You'll start using Dipsey's and boards and you want counters for sure. Heartland rods are good, as are triton and gators. Starting to use a lot of copper and always did use lead lines, you need pretty big reels for that. We uase sizes 30, 45, and 55. Our standard mono is 17lb, but starting to use braided more and more because of diameter and less stretch. But braided won't hold on releases as well as mono. JMHO
 

KC8QVO

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Our standard mono is 17lb, but starting to use braided more and more because of diameter and less stretch. But braided won't hold on releases as well as mono. JMHO

Great info. Thanks for the reply. Regarding the line in the releases - how about braided line as a main line then mono for the tippet/leader? Could you put the release on the mono tippet/leader instead in that case? Just curious how that set up would work.

On the reels - I am looking at the Abu Garcia Alphamar 20. See link below. What are your thoughts on that? Any experience? I have run Abu Garcia gear for years and currently use one of their open-frame reels on my bait caster. I had a spinning set up of theirs I bought, real cheap set up, that lasted about a season, but they do make some better quality gear, just the price climbs a bit too.
 
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KC8QVO

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I went to the store today and got a bunch of new gear. They had the Alphamar 20 reel in stock so I picked one up to try. I figure the $100 price point puts it above the entry level stuff. I picked up a 9' Shimano TDR rod to go along with it. I got two other reels/line for my spinning rods to try. Now I need more spools for one of the set ups.

I did not get any line for the Alphamar reel. The guy at the store was telling me about the different lines. I am thinking of using a super line like spectra or dyneema instead of mono. What I am thinking is that type of line is stronger for the size and will last longer. Then I can run a leader off of that of what ever I want - fluro, mono, etc.

What stopped me from lining the reel is the guy at the shop mentioned backing. What I gather is it is common practice to line the spool with mono before the main line goes on so that the main line, if a "braid"/super line, has something to "grab". I noticed, though, that this reel has a line peg = anything looped around it will not spin around the base of the spool. I am also a bit hesitant to line the reel with mono due to the mono breaking down over time.

My fly reels are all lined with a braided nylon, or other, type of material - NOT mono.

What lining procedures have you done on your set up? What is not a good way to go?
 

Teamster

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Some of my trolling rigs have had the same line on them for 10 years,.....

Sun light is the enemy of mono line,......And being as I never get to the mono backing it should be fine,...

I start by putting the leader, Then 100 yards of 40 pound Power Pro line (the power pro matches the line diameter in the trolling bible) and then the mono backing, Checking to see that the line counter matches out to 150 feet,...And then wind it onto the reel it will live on,.....

Clear as mud??
 

Georgesalmon

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We always use flourcarbon for leaders, up to 50' in some cases. Powerpro is also used but releases don't work as well because its slippery. I've never used that abu Garcia reel but have used others and they are very good. My first was an ambassador got for Christmas when I was a teenager. I still have it and use it from time to time. I'm 67.
 

Starcraft5834

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Reel w line counter for jigging suspended fish in thermoclines
 
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KC8QVO

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Thanks for the info. I have heard of the power pro/other kinds of super lines not working well in releases. If the leader is long enough to get past the release, though, that should eliminate that issue I would think - it would be the mono or fluoro in the release.

So I think what I am going to do, and call me crazy if you want, is to line the reel with 40 or 50lb fly line backing (braided dacron is what it appears to be - thicker than a super line for the weight rating). Then I am going to get a smaller weight super line - like 17-20lb (I think they go in 5lb increments, so 20). From there I'll get a fluoro line to run as a leader.

I may get some other lines to try also and make a rig for the drill to spin it off the reel quicker to swap.
 

dingbat

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Braided lines work very well with clips if you follow a couple of rules: 1. Follow the line manufactuer's recommendation and size braid by diameter, not line strength. I have absolutely no problem using 0.016 and 0.017 inch diameter braid on clips. 2. Use a line that is "braided" from multiple filaments. The line tends to be "rounder" for lack of a better word. Fire line is the absolute worst stuff to use. I use power pro for trolling and sufix super braid on my jigging rods 3. Make an over hand loop in the line then put the clip on the loop.
 

KC8QVO

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I am working on my rigging here.

I am trying to figure out what lengths of lines to use based on the capacity on the box rated for 17lb mono at 485yd.

What I have found is the braided dacron fly backing I got flattens out when it is compressed. At the wide part it is .031", narrow part is .012". It appears 17lb mono is right about .015". So what I did with the braid is I split the difference between narrow and wide and got .0215". Working that math I got the equivalent capacity with that diameter line to be 70% of the 17lb mono.

The main line I got is Spiderwire Fluorocarbon 20lb. It comes in at .0098", or working that math through the capacity would be 153% more than the 17lb mono.

Then 55', or 18.333yd, of 15lb fluorocarbon leader.

Working all that through -

18.333yd of leader leaves 466.6666yd. The equivalent yardage of the Spiderwire, at 150yd, is 98yd. That leaves 368.6666yd (based off 17lb mono). Since the braid backing takes up more space (braided backing will be 70% as long as the mono, shorter) that comes out to about 257 yards of backing.

Now the big question here is how accurate this all is. I based the yardage off of the proportions in line diameters and the assumption that it is linear. I don't think that is the case - as you narrow the diameter I'd say the proportion of line you can get on goes up faster than the ratio of the diameter (non-linear, a sloped scale) because you will already have more on the reel in the beginning and as the line thickens on the spool the circumference increases - so you have two factors working there, not just the difference in diameter.

I'd rather not have any knots in the backing splicing runs together so I am thinking of running more than the 257yd of backing my figures show, then trimming if I need to. Maybe I'll start with 300yd and see what that gets me.
 

KC8QVO

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I got the reel lined.

The braided dacron fly backing was tricky.

The first step I did was measure off the 55ft leader. I wound this on an empty spool.

I had 2 stakes in the ground 75ft apart (25yds). Each pass down and back was 50yds.

Once I had the leader spooled I moved on to the main line - 20lb spiderwire fluoro-braid. I ran 150yds of this (3 laps around the stakes).

Then I moved on to the braided backing. I got a couple laps run on the reel and realized the stuff is really spongy. So I ran it back off the reel and then wound it with tension. This took the spongy-ness right out of it. I had 300yds run off to try. When I got all the way through I didn't have any space left on the spool. So I pulled off a lap and a half, 75yds, and called it good. That left 225yds on the reel.

Then I started winding up the spool I had the main line and leader on. I was able to get all of it on and still have a hair of an edge on one side of the reel spool showing.

So all in all there is 225yds backing, 150yds main line, and 18.5yds leader = 393.5yds total. I would say that should be plenty. I figure I'll never use up the main line. 150 yards of that is 450ft. Even if I am trolling at 150ft that is still 300ft/100yds of space for a fish to run.

Has anyone ever used up most of their backing on a running fish before? I'd think that would have to be one heck of a fish to get that far, or not realizing you're snagged?
 

dingbat

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Goodness....do yourself a favor and buy a clip on line counter for $10.
 

LongLine

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You may be over-thinking it & trying to put a little too much science into it. From my years of fishing Lake O, I have a bunch of cheap mono on my Penn 320 GT2's. Just enough so that a 300 yd spool of 15 Lb p-Line CXXX fills the spool. Then I usually tie on a 15 ft pice of 10-12 Lb fluro. The fluro & about 6 ft of the p-Line gets cut off after every fish & retied.

Braid is a sea-flea magnet!

I used to run full spools of maxima but got spooled twice. Made the change a few years back & haven't been spooled since.

Tom B.
(LongLine)
 

KC8QVO

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LongLine - now I've heard the term "sea flea" a few times now and I have to say I never knew what it was. So I googled it. This is the first I have ever heard of that term and I spent a bit of time on Lake Erie years ago (late 90's/early 2000's) walleye fishing and never saw such a thing, much less heard of it.

Is that a recent invasive species? Or was it around when I was on the lake and I just happened to skip right over its' existence?
 

dingbat

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I used to run full spools of maxima but got spooled twice. Made the change a few years back & haven't been spooled since.
Explain.... spoiled with braid but not mono.
 
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LongLine

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Fleas have been around for a few years on Ontario. The look like seaweed on your line...real goober type stuff. They get into you rod tip eye and put the brakes on your line.

Spooled - not spoiled. Mono stretches and you can feel it thru the rod. Braid won't stretch but like I said, fleas love it, It's awful easy for them to get ahold of it and stick like freeking glue. Mono & Co-poly are smoother surface and if the right diameter, fleas can't get ahold of it.

Tom B.
(LongLine)
 
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