Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong? :-)

[Dennis4b]

Hello people,<br /><br />Tomorrow I have to winterize the boat (part of the marina is already frozen!) .. haven't driven it in a few weeks, and the engine doesn't like to come back on.<br /><br />(Engine is a 1979 v4 seahorse 2stroke Johnson 85hp)<br /><br />When trying to start normally, it might cough a few times, but no real running. Battery doesn't last long this way either!<br /><br />Then I tried it with starting spray (I know, it's bad for the engine, no oil in it). Sprayed it past the choke butterflies. The engine then tries to fire up immediately! Except.. it doesn't last long Just a few seconds.<br /><br />The kicker is, if I move the warm-up lever up and down very fast the engine will keep running, faster than idle, not too confident, but it will keep running. When I stop doing that (I eventually want to move it into gear and start going it stalls again.<br /><br />Sooo.. fuel delivery problem? Where should I check? Carbs? Take them off and make sure they're ok? Any tips for tuning carbs (I am not sure what settings to use).<br /><br />The engine has always worked, although starting it never liked and idling it doesnt like either (stalls and/or wets plugs). Once up and running at a load though it has never given any problems (not even when we bounced over a submerged rock, skeg took a hit, prop didn't, long and different story, the sound of the impact you'll never forget! <br /><br />Then once the boat is on land I'll have all the time in the world to disassemble parts and with help of the massive collective knowledge here hopefully turn it into a reliable next-season engine I just have to get it to another harbour (about 2 nm) tomorrow!<br /><br />Thanks for any help!

 

[grandx]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

Certainly sounds fuel related, gummed up carb/clogged jets if I had to guess. How old is the fuel and how long has the motor been sitting without running? I would spray WD40 as a substitute for starting fluid. It has some lubrication. I would clean the carb and run new fuel. Possible quick fix: If you could keep it running on a remote tank via choking and or throttle with carb cleaner added to the premix, it might... clean itself up enough and get you where you're goin, Although I've not had too much luck with this method. Good luck

 

[JB]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

Ahoy, Dennis! It always pleases me so much to see posts on this board from all over the planet. Welcome!<br /><br />Now, to your symptoms: Water. With dropping temps, condensation in your tank will be at maximum. Your engine is behaving as though it is getting too much water and not enough petrol. Get the water out of your fuel tank and add a water seperator to your fuel feed system. <br /><br />Take 2 Chivas, neat, and post us in the morning. <br /><br />Red sky at night. . .<br />JB

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

Water in the tank?? Not again!! Hehe. Had loads of trouble with that when we bought the boat. Came with 120 litres of fuel and fuel costs like $1/litre here. Didnt want to throw it out <br /><br />We do have a water seperator, and well, I guess I should check the water level! If it IS water, I am going to kick myself off the boat into the water! We haven't run it in perhaps 2 1/2 months. Carbs were cleaned before that and spotless. If the engine doesnt start in the morning (I will use WD-40, thanks for the hint!) we'll take off the carbs just to be sure.<br /><br />And J.B. yeah "dropping temperatures" sounds about right for this place! I would get really cranky if we had to take the fuel tank out again to clean it properly <br /><br />What is a good way to "flush" the engine if it was indeed water? We always crank it a bit without the plugs, or run it on fresh fuel until it smoothens out.<br /><br />BIG PS - for some reason we installed the primer bulb before the water filter, should it be after? does it make a difference? it seems to fill up the filter first with fuel, then it gets hard but once squeezed it doesn't really expand back up?

 

[manowar]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

you need the primer bulb after the filter that a way the air stays out better or otta

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

I think the guys have got you going in the right direction. Once you get this done you can easily install a primer system and remove the old choke system. Very easy since you will have the carbs off anyway. Also it's fairly common (in the US, anyway) to have to rejet the idle circuit of older motors. They were designed and calibrated for the fuel of that day which we have lost long ago. Again, very easy to richen up the idle circuit with the carbs off.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

Dahdley, thanks for your reply <br /><br />The fact the engine just kicks off with a bit of starting spray (or wd40) sprayed into the carbs makes me want to put something similar there permanently. Key-turn starts sound great! How would a primer work for an old engine like this? just a squirt of fuel? By replacing the old choke system, I guess the choke still stays in place since it is part of the chain, but just doesn't get used anymore (butterflies open)? Where would be the primer be positioned? Are there any kits available that do this already?<br /><br />I've always wondered what would happen when air is blown into the air intake, so the outside pressure would seem higher to the crankcase and it would suck up more air (and thus more fuel). Most of it would blow right out of the exhaust ports I guess, but would it improve starting?<br /><br />Sorry to ask so many questions

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

The primer (434762) goes where the choke solenoid is now. You can remove the choke butterflies and related linkage. You can put a nipple (327706) in the top of each carb. You will need about a foot or so of hose (326449). Just be sure and use the new style carb gasket (327707). Just hold the carb gasket to the back of the carb and drill thru the hole in the gasket on an angle. Tap the fitting in and remount the carb. With the carbs on, place the primer where the solenoid was and connect a hose from each outlet on the primer to each nipple. Reconnect the wire. Replace your fuel manifold (plastic pipe) with 390465. Connect the new manifold to the primer with a piece of hose (319733).<br /><br />Once installed, to start the motor pressure the system by squeezing the bulb (as always). Turn the key to the "ON" position and push it in (or engage choke button) and count to eight. Turn the key to the "Start" position. The motor should start almost instantly. You may have to "tap" the primer if the motor is cold natured until it warms up.<br /><br />Let us know how you make out. Good luck!

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

Sounds great! I've written down the parts numbers, I guess the OMC shops over here will know what they mean <br /><br />This one is definately on the list of winter adjustments/repairs. Thanks so much for all the help!

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

Just thought of something -- when you pull the carbs make sure the intake manifold has a slot connecting the two top and two bottom throats. This slot is how the fuel gets to each cylinder from the nipple. It will be in line with the hole in the new gaskets. I do believe the 79's had it. If not, no problem. We just put the nipples in the by-pass covers. <br /><br />Sorry for the slow thinking -- it's been a long week.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[Dennis4b]

Re: Docter, these are my symptoms.. whats wrong?

Well, went out this morning with a freshly charged battery. We flushed the carbs, made sure the water seperator had not filled up with water (had hardly any), connected everything back, primed the bulb, gave it a tiny spray of wd40 and it started right up! Let it idle high long enough to warm up, reversed out of our spot, then forward to leave the marina (this is always a problem, when the gear flicks past neutral with the warm up lever down (it has to for this OMC control thing) the engine likes to stall. It never did it today!)<br /><br />On the way out we had to crack some ice for like 50 metres, funny but nervous noise that makes The boat is now in the other marina (doesnt freeze as fast) waiting to be lifted out. There's a few smaller boats there that have sunk and are just held up by the ropes attaching them to their piers, engine under water etc. <br /><br />All in all thanks to everyone who replied to this thread! The boat made it safely and the engine performed perfectly, and I will be sure to install a primer system to replace the choke for next season.