Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

[dst87mcssac]

Gentlemen,

My 1997, 75 HP Force / Mercury Outboard Model ELPT with Serial Number OE250062 will not start. The battery is fully charged and the starter spins fast. I installed in-line see through spark testers and I got no spark on any of the three cylinders and I got no spark on any cylinder. I also grounded the plugs without the testers and got no spark.

Last night, I pulled out my Force Service Manual and it tells me how to test the Stator, Trigger and CDM's. However, it also states that I need a Multi-Meter / DVA Tester 91-99750 to check the Discharge Voltage. I have read that the DVA Tester is something that the outboard markers developed to test the ignition systems. I also will need a ignition test harness 84-825207A2 to use with the Meter. I have found these items on Ebay. The meter is about $80 and the harness is $45.

Do I need these items to trouble shoot the Stator, Trigger and CDM's? Can I use my Muti-Meter to test? I have pulled the flywheel and the magnets are fine and the keyway is not damaged.

Thanks,

Donald

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

If you are very good with electrical troubleshooting you shouldn't need a DVA although you will need a buddy to do the cranking or a remote starter which is really cheap. With no sparks at all, first things first. Check the stop switch and the kill switch make sure it is not activated. The grounded wire on the stop switch or kill switch will prevent all sparks in all plugs.

If that is OK, next step is ensure you have voltage output from the stator (between yellow and blue wires) the cranking voltage should be around 180~200 VAC. Anything less is an indication of a bad stator.

There are some electrical troubleshooting steps provided at CDI Electronics that you might want to check.

 

[dst87mcssac]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

Jiggz,

Thanks, I not very good with Electrical Trouble Shooting, but I am coming along. I have a inboard ski boat that has taught be a ton. I do not have a safety lanyard ( Kill Switch) on the boat ( Pontoon). I am getting power to the starter. It is spining freely. I have my 14 year old daughter helping me with turning the key. I will take a look at the neutral safety switch, but I am getting the starter to spin. I hope I do not sound like I am arguing with you. I just may be confused and I want to tell you what I am seeing.

I will check the voltage output from the stator ( Between yellow and blue wires) .

This is the kind of help I need.

Thanks a lot.

Donald

 

[Aggitated]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

Hey dst87mcssac, I live just across the lake in Troutman, if I can be of any assistance let me know. I know most of the boat mechanics in the area, the good and bad. I'm not back on LKN yet but soon. I really don't care about going out now, to crowded, but come fall, fishon!!!

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

You can also check the resistance of the stator winding. I've found that it's easier than trying to read the stator voltage while cranking. It should be between 500 - 700 ohms between the White/Green and Green/White wires. Make sure they're disconnected from the harness when checking.

If you have Blue and Yellow stator leads, they typically read from 680 - 850 ohms.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

According to run the test the way the factory says.You need the meter to read the voltage on the DVA scale to check the stator.
The ohms can be good but the output can be bad.
I have an Electro Specialties DVA meter.Analog meter.New about $110.
Unfortunatly it's in the shop.And I need it!!!
I think Radio Shack sells an adapter to make a regular meter into a DVA meter.
Just make sure you talk to the smart one behind the counter.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

The difference between the DVA and an analog aside from the display, is the ability of the DVA to hold on the reading until you clear it. If you are reading by yourself, obviously this is not practical since the analog will not hold the reading for you to see after cranking it, unless you use extra long wires or remote starter so you can crank and see the analog reading at the same time. Otherwise, the voltage output of the stator should read the same. The resistance reading is another way to check the stator but it doesn't check for weak insulation unlike voltage reading.

Of course, it is totally different if you start reading voltage from coils and powerpacks which presents more of a voltage spikes rather than continuous voltage from the stator. In this case you need DVA. Here a link on how to make one from three components fro Radio Shack.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=434738

 

[dst87mcssac]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

Gentlemen,

Thanks. I will give all of these idea a try. I have my 14 year old to help me at the helm and I can be in the back. I found some DVA meters on E-bay for less than $100.00. I also found some DVA adapters for about the cost of a meter. However, I will check with Radio Shack and see what they can supply in the form of a DVA adapter for my Multi-Meter.

Aggitated,

If I give up and go to a shop, I will try to get up with you for recommentations as to where to take it. Westport on Lake Norman is where the boat orginally came from so they may still have some guys on staff who understand the Force / Mercury.

Thanks,

Donald

 

[Aggitated]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

Westport is really good; however, Gearld Wise in China Grove (Wise Marine) is as far as I know of the only Force mechanic left in NC. He knows Force outboards inside out. He's listed in the phone book. Little farther for you to travel, but may be worth looking into. Every repaire shop around sends their Force motor repair work that comes in to him for fixin'.
He's reasonable with his labor rates as well.

Good luck.

 

[dst87mcssac]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

David,

I was recently traveling from China Grove ( I-85) to Mooresville and I saw a boat shop with a FORCE SIGN. That must be him. No it is not too far to take my boat to him. I am going to give this a shot myself, but if I need help, I will take it to him.

Thanks,

Donald

 

[dst87mcssac]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

PNWboat,

Today, I checked the resistance in my stator as per your instructions. I disconnected the Green/White and White/ Green wires from the harness. When I put my Mutli-Meter on the OHM's scale I got the following:

OL or Open Circuit.

Could this be an indicator that my stator is bad.

Thanks,

Donald

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

Yes your stator is bad. Should be 500 - 700 ohms. Stator winding is open. It's not generating proper voltage for the ignition system. That's why you don't see any spark.

 

[dst87mcssac]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

pnwboat,

Great. Thanks for all of your help and thanks to everyone that has helped.

Donald

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

The next problem that you'll be faced with is removing the flywheel to get at the stator. There's a lot of posts here that explain how to do it. Since you have a 1997 motor, your flywheel should have a raised lip around the center hole on the flywheel. It has threads on the inside of the lip for a specific type of flywheel puller. Cost about $30 - $50 new. It should also have three 1/4" -20 holes in your flywheel so that you can use a generic type of flywheel puller. Much cheaper. If you have any questions, there's plenty of folks here that can help you out. Good luck!

 

[MikeyB3649]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWsE2tPjHuo

You can build a DIY DVA of sorts for around $20.

 

[dst87mcssac]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

Guy,

Thanks, I already got a Mercury Puller off of E-Bay for $35.00. It works like a champ. Orginally, I though my flywheel key was damaged and making my timing off. When I pulled the flywheel, my key was fine. Also, my flywheel has two bad spots so I need to find a replacement. I have been looking for one month on E-Bay and I can not find my part number. I realize some of the others may cross over, but I am concerned that I will buy one and it not work. It looks like I will have to purchase a new one for around $350.00. Crowley Marine has a price, but I am not sure if they actually have them in stock. For now, I will try to get this motor running again and then swap out the flywheel.

Thanks,

Donald

 

[dst87mcssac]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

Aggitated,

Thanks for the lead concerning Gerald Wise at Wise Marine in China Grove, NC. I have offically given up on getting this motor to run so I took it to Gerald this morning. He has already showed me how I was using the choke the wrong way for the last ten years.

Thanks,

Donald

 

[dst87mcssac]

Re: Do I need a Multi Meter with DVA to trouble shoot or will a standard one work?

OK, I got my boat back from the shop on Friday and used it all weekend. Come to find out, I did not get the Fly Wheel back on tight enough and the Flywheel jumped the key. This made the timing so bad it would not start. I used the manual to torque it back on the motor and I do not know how I could of gotten it wrong.

I had the shop clean the carb, rebuild the fuel pump, and adjust the idle. They checked the compression and it was great. The boat is now starting good and running great.

Thanks for all of the help,

Donald