Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

gregintexas

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I have a very short time window to score a tandem trailer with brakes for $1000. Has a 1987 Bayliner 21.5ft sitting on it. Boat needs an engine but sterndrive is good. Interior of boat is shot but could sell as is WITH the sterndrive on eBay? <br />I have a 1989 Capri 2150...essentially the same boat! It is on a single axle trailer with no brakes. Don't know the weight of my boat (wish I did) and wondering should I upgrade to the other deal for $1000, swap trailers, then sell the other rig on my single axle trailer as?<br />My trailer nas new tires and a new HD axle.<br />I pull with a 2001 Montero Limited (not the Sport)so I'm not using a big pickup or other larger vehicle.<br />I'd REALLY like some input as to what to do. I have heard my trailer is fine, just put on brakes. That will take adding new rims, etc. The tandem trailer needs 4 new tires. My head is spinning!!!
 

fondafj

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

gregintexas,<br /> If you tow a lot a tandem axle trailer is a must. BUT --- my guess would be that if the trailer you are considering getting needs tires, then it probably needs the brakes replaced and wheel bearings done as well.
 

jlinder

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

What is the size of your boat? Is a model 2150 21.5 feet long? If so, I would guess what you are towing is pushing 5000 pounds. If so, towing without brakes is a real problem.<br /><br />I have a Chaparrel 198XL, 19' 8". Total weight towed is about 4000#. I have a single axle trailer with brakes. One thing I notice is that I have very large tires for a trailer, and need them to support the weight. There are others with better experience, but I would not like to have a rig that weighs over 4000# and run it on a single axle.<br /><br />Can you give some more details? What length boat, can you get a weight (a really good idea), what is the load rating for the tires, etc.
 

gregintexas

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

Jack L-<br />Another poster said the NADA listed the weight of my boat as 2500. Sounds pretty light to me, but a service manager locally didn't think the boat was over 3000. Said Bayliners were lightweight.<br />Yeah, its 21.5ft long. The trailer has new Goodyears on it but don't know ratings right off.<br /><br />I have a guy wanting to sell a tandem with another 21.5ft Bayliner with a blown engine for $900. I think I should go for it. I'll eBay the boat and my single trailer and use his trailer after I put on new tires and service the brakes.<br />What do you think?
 

jtexas

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

greg, <br />state law requires brakes on 4500 lbs & over of trailer gross weight capacity. Not to mention wear & tear on your Montero brakes.<br /><br />There's a rock yard in Hurst and one in Ft Worth that I know of, that have scales where you could get weighed.<br /><br />Check the capacity plate on your trailer, & weigh the rig with a full load, fuel, water toys, etc, then make an informed decision, is my opinion.<br /><br />good luck, let us know how it turns out.<br /><br />jtw
 

gregintexas

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

I should be well under 4500lbs. Even if the boat was 3500, the trailer is only about 600lbs.<br /><br />I'm leaning toward grabbing the tandem I mentioned in my previous reply. After selling off the sterndrive and the boat with single trailer, I should make out fairly well.
 

impalapower

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Oct 17, 2005
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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

Tandems bounce less going down the road. Single axles are easier to back into tight locations.
 

Pony

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

Greg - the weight I gave you was the dry weight out of the factory. there is no way of knowing for sure unless you get it weighed at a scale. the 2,525 isnt accounting for gear, and soggy foam u could have, seats, etc.
 

jlinder

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

It is very misleading to use the dry weight for your calculations.<br /><br />Take the 2500 book listing for the boat and add 600 for the trailer. Then add about 6.5# per gal. of gas. For 30 gal of gas you have close to 200#. Now you are at 3300#<br /><br />What about all the stuff you have added: anchor, spare tire for the trailer, jack, life jackets, extinguisher, tools, etc. Gotta believe this will add up to at least 300#. Now you are at 3600#.<br /><br />Ever put food, drinks, etc. on the boat to take to your launch site? What do you think that weights in at? Another 200# or more? Now you are at 3800#.<br /><br />Have you added electronics, extra battery, etc. to the boat? You need to consider that weight also.<br /><br />What about waterlogged cushions and foam or water in the bilge? Could we tack another 200# on for that? Now you are at 4000#.<br /><br />I think the 4000 lbs. number will be a lot closer to what you really have, but as you can see there is a lot of room for error in my estimations. Getting it weighted is the only real way to go.<br /><br />Can you take a look at the tires? The size and load rating should be on the sidewall.<br /><br />Also, the load rating is given at a certain tire pressure. In real life tires often are running under that pressure so you need to derate to allow for that.<br /><br />Greg, even if the law only REQUIRES brakes for trailers over 4500# that doesn't mean it is smart to run 4000# without brakes. I would not want to do it.<br /><br />BTW - I looked up load ratings for Goodyear tires. An example is their 225/75 R15 C rating tire at 2150# rated load. With 2 tires you have 4300# total. Not much headroom
 

gregintexas

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

Jack L-<br />Thanks for the addl. detail. I do need to check the tire load rating. If I can secure the tandem, it will be getting 4 new tires with load ratings I need. <br /><br />As for my gross weight, all I would add in was for gas (as you stated), some life jackets and 2 anchors. No extra batteries at this poing or other significant gear. I'll keep in mind about putting my "at the lake gear" inside the boat for hauling. Hadn't really thought of that!!
 

T S N

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

Dont forget to add in the weight of that motor on the back! Those things aint light either.
 

JasonB

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

Just for reference in the weight discussion, my 19' Glastron is listed at 2400lbs dry weight with a V8 engine and Outdrive. I changed from a single axle trailer to a tandem last year. The only down side is the extra weight of the new trailer, but it is built much heavier. I drug it across the scales at a truch stop last week. The weight on the trailer axles was 3,820lbs. Now add in the tongue weight, and I'm about 4200lbs with 25gal of fuel and little else. My guess is that you are pushing 5k lbs. I would go tandem (I did!). Brakes are a must for safety as well. I wouldn't tow without them on my trailer, and I have a larger tow vehicle than you do (F-150 supercab). <br /><br />Just for argument sake, my entire rig tips the scvales at 9,000lbs with no one in the cab.<br /><br /><br />
1rig.JPG
<br /><br />This is how she looked on the original single axle. It was rated to carry 2500lbs. It was severly overloaded...<br /><br />
i-1.jpg
 

craze1cars

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

JasonB, thanks for taking the time to post the pics and the factual numbers. It provides a nice visual that will hopefully give some people a wake-up call as to how heavy their rigs are...there's a lot of people out there with 19 foot runabouts who are under the false impression that they're towing 2,500 lbs...<br /><br />In my experience, most people grossly understimate how heavy their boat/trailer combos are in the real world. It illustrates the importance of actually weighing your rig to determine if your tow vehicle is adequate and safe, as opposed to guestimating with inaccurate numbers in guides and spec sheets.<br /><br />And with regards to trailer brake laws, it appears that Texas is one of the ONLY continental states dumb enough (my opinion, obviously!) to not require trailer brakes until you clear 4,500 lbs. They are second only to Massachusetts which allows a WHOPPING 10,000 lbs, and of course Missouri and Kentucky who apparently don't mind if people don't bother with ANY trailer brakes regardless of weight. Darwinism at work, I guess...<br /><br />And howsabout the other extreme in North Dakota and Kansas? Even a 200 lb empty lawnmower trailer is illegal to tow if it's not equipped with brakes. <br /><br />You just gotta love all the common sense in goverment!<br /><br />Here's a couple nice links that spell out the trailering laws for each of the 50 states:<br /> http://www.roadmasterinc.com/laws.htm <br /> http://www.aaa.com/aaa/Traveler/trailer.html
 

JasonB

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

Craze1, just tossing out what I know and rendering my opinion. I tend to be conservative and try to err on the side of overkill. My truck is rated to tow 6800 or 7700lbs. No way would I do it, but I wanted a vehicle that could easily handle a 5k lb towed load. With my family with me, I want a huge margin. I guess you could call me a scaredy cat and control freak. That and I want towing to be as relaxed a spossible so I'm not bushed by the time I get to the water.<br /><br />I towed my boat home with no brakes down the interstate across the smokey mountains. My F-150 has great brakes, but it was at its limits, and didn't give me the warm fuzzies about safety. The single axle trailer got brakes after I got it home. 'Nuff said. <br /><br />Just for reference, if you look closely in the top pic, you can see a red trailer tongue sticking out behind the 19'. That is my ~2000lb fishing boat. The Red ranger you see in the far right was my tow vehicle for it until I got the F-150. The fishing boat doesn't have brakes. The ranger is rated to tow 2000lbs (should have brakes after 1500). That truck weighs about 2800lbs. You do the math and it gets scarey. It was ok for local trips, but interstate travel was white knuckle. <br /><br />If you check, most vehicle manufacturers state that you must have brakes on the trailer above XX pounds. For example... I had a Kia salesman argue me that a Sportage would tow my 2000lb fishing boat with no problems. Sure, that vehicle is rated to tow 2k lbs (I wouldn't....), but if you read the fine print in the specs is says anything over 1000lbs requires trailer brakes. <br /><br />Also don't forget, tow ratings do not account for passengers and cargo. If you have a rating of 5k, and you have 4 adults and gear as well, well, your rating just went to 4k. Now assume that you went ahead and hooked up that 4000lb boat with no brakes to your 4000lb vehicle . You are now trying to stop 9000lbs with brakes designed to stop 5-6000. Not to mention that the weight of that boat is trying to push the rear end of your short SUV around on you and lifting up on the rear end at the same time. With trrailer brakes, the boat tends to stay behind you and not take weight off the rear of the tow vehicle as well.<br /><br />Brakes are relatively cheap, esp. if you are fresh water only like me. My truck was already wired for electric brakes. A quick trip to an RV supply store with about $300, and I had electric brakes on my trailer and a controller in the truck in a few hours, including break-away. When I replace the axles on my rebuilt trailer, I will go with brakes on both axles.<br /><br />FWIW, Tennessee requires brakes on trailers over 2000lbs, but I've never seen it enforced. Trailers with electric brakes are required to have a break-away system.
 

craze1cars

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Re: Dilemma!! Should I Have 1 Axle or 2??

All very good points. Especially the parts about vehicle manufacturers recommending brakes and load limits. I have a "2003 Chevrolet Trailering Guide" that I picked up from a dealer when I bought my truck. Here's what they say about trailer brakes:<br /><br />"For Silverado, Tahoe, and Suburban your trailer must have its own adequate brakes if it weighs more than 2,000 lbs loaded (1,500 lbs. for TrailBlazer). For all other Chevy Truck models, if your trailer weighs more than 1,000 lbs loaded, it must have its own adequate brakes." <br /><br />I'm thinking there's an awful lotta people out there with trailers that need brakes who don't have them. How many 16 and 17 foot fishing boats (probably a bit over 2,000 lbs) do you see on the road being towed by full sized trucks? They don't think they need trailer brakes, but Chevy says they do, even if they're towing it with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck! And for those towing with small SUVs and minivans? Remember your trailer brake threshhold drops to 1,000.<br /><br />It also states that tongue weight should be 10% to 15% of trailer weight. I've seen many people on this site erroneously state lower numbers, like 5% to 10%, unless maybe other manufacturers have a different school of thought on tongue weight that I'm not aware of.<br /><br />Basically, everyone needs to sit down and read their owner's manuals....there's some information in there that will likely surprise you! AND info that might help keep you and others alive in a high speed panic stop situation.
 
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