Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

[AlexeiVT]

So far, you fellas have been on the money helping me diagnose and rectify problems thus far...so here's another ? for my '64 40HP Evinrude BIG TWIN.<br /><br />Presently, I'm unable to get the motor to start and idle properly in Neutral.<br /><br />As a background...earlier today, there was no issue at all w/ this...and I made no changes since the time it worked properly, till the way it barely works now.<br /><br />What I did...pulled flywheel to check components. Coils were modern, no cracks, looked OK. Cleaned up the points, though they weren't burnt, just dragged some fine paper through them, and regapped them as suggested to .02. Key wasn't sheared.<br /><br />After reassembly, fired it up just fine on the first pull, and ran it for 10 minutes. Per advice, I used some of that "Sea Foam" (luckily nobody called the fire dept...smokes ahoy!)...I let it sit 5 minutes...pull started again on the first pull, and ran another 10, then repeated the procedure, and ran it again.<br /><br />So all told, I had it running just "fine" for about 25 minutes. It would idle fairly nicely in Neutral.<br /><br />Then, all of a sudden, for no reason as far as anything to do w/ me, it no longer works the same.<br /><br />What's strange, is I can pull start it, and it'll fire up right for a brief second, but even giving it more throttle it just dies...I can repeat that procedure over and over, but I never am successful in getting it to run in N.<br /><br />As an aside...if I catch it quickly enough, I can shift to Forward, give it some throttle, and keep it running in my test bucket fine...but not in N like always before.<br /><br />I'm figuring a carb rebuild is in order anyway, since it's been 3 years since it was last rebuilt, and until a month ago, wasn't used...and the float doesn't shut the valve/gas flow. But, nevertheless, even w/ the incorrectly performing carb, these problems that prevent actual water time use, are new. A month ago, I was tooting along for three hours, w/out a hint of concern...now I'm not so sure.<br /><br />I will rebuild the carb...and see how that affects things...but before spending the time and money, it sure would be nice to have a bit more concrete answer as to why this has all of a sudden gone from working good enough, to barely working at all.<br /><br />Thanks again, for any advice...I've got a relevant manual (Clymers), but it doesn't go into troubleshooting like this.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

It wasn't broke, so you fixed it, huh? <br /><br />Sounds very much like carbs need cleaning. Sea Foam might have knocked something loose in carb. <br /><br />Also, I'm sure you've gone over this many times in your head, but are you sure everything under the flywheel is copacetic?

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

Well first off.... After putting this in a neon and dragging it a few miles (that is after you were drifting towards the spillway and swam 1 hour back to shore with all your friends) I would look at it as a positive thing. Some of These outboards are finicky (I will be the first to speak up on that one)<br /><br />When you tightened the flywheel did you tighten it to specs?<br /><br />It sounds like an issue with spark, or timming. If you can:<br />"shift to Forward, give it some throttle, and keep it running in my test bucket fine"<br />Then it sounds to me like somewhere the timming got thrown off. Like it needs to advance enough to keep spark. Which the first place I would look is that wonderful dreadful key. <br /><br />I would look under the flywheel again... make sure everythings ok (mines been off ALOT lately)<br /><br />As far as the clymer manual.. there ok with the basics but Your right on the trouble shooting aspects... Theres barely any in there<br /><br />Remember this is only what I would do.. I'm no expert but I'm having many issues as are you. It gets frustrating at times but it's knowing i am going in the right direction that makes it all worth it. I've done many things 2-3 times if not more. Just to make sure things are right when something isn't

 

[AlexeiVT]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

OK,<br />I'll pop the flywheel off again...but WHAT exactly am I looking for under there, that would indicate a problem.<br /><br />Visually, it looks pretty plain, and straightfoward as to things being fine...all wires in tact, 2 points/condensors/coils, all at least looking ok. Flywheel key not sheared (do they really just shear when running at low idle w/out possibility of hitting anything?). How critical is having the correct ft/lbs on the flywheel nut (any range of what it should be...I'll try to dig it out of the manual, but this manual is vague in that it tries to condense 10 years models as general practices).<br /><br />I could at least understand that if after my removing, inspecting, cleaning, and reassembling things, that things got worse...but they didn't, they got better...as in, it started on the first pull, started again and again, for about 25 minutes total run time...until...<br /><br />Now, it starts but doesn't stay idling in Neutral...something somewhere changed (on it's own) and how to go about figuring out what that was.<br /><br />W/ "Link and Sync" and adjusting timing, how does one go about that on an outboard? I familiar w/ rotating a distributor, but am unsure of what to manipulate on this to make timing changes (I can borrow a timing light).<br /><br />As always, thanks for any input (it's gotta be running great in the bucket, before I haul it up 200 miles and pop it back on the boat).

 

[AJ168]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

Will it run in nuetral at higher RPM's or not at all? <br />If it just won't idle I agree with BoatBuoy, it sounds like a piece of crud got knocked loose out of the carb and blocked a passage.

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

Yes... if the flywheel nut is not torqued correctly It can shear even playing around in idle. I've sheard many thinking it was "tight enough" Then I read it has to be to specs... or it will shear

 

[AlexeiVT]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

It will no longer run in neutral at higher RPM's...prior to this, even when it was running less than ideal, giving it a bit of throttle in N, it would pick up and run.<br /><br />Now, even though it fires on the first pull, I just can't even seem to give it throttle in N to keep going...BUT, if I shift to F immediately after I pull the cord, I can get it to run while giving it more throttle (which, of course, you can give more throttle in F than N).<br /><br />As far as the flywheel...does anyone have an indication of what the SPEC really is, that'd be a help, I have atorque wrench, and that's what I'll use to adjust (but the manual leaves me guessing).<br /><br />Also, though I haven't pulled the flywheel yet to check...do you guy's really think it's feasible that it could have sheared just idling in a bucket.<br /><br />And to boot, if it for some reason did shear, than it's still able to pick up and go in F.<br /><br />I guess, apart from another visual inspection and disassembly, I'll await a carb rebuild kit...but like I said, it'd be nice to know what the diagnosis at least "sounds like" before I go spending too much time and money on things that may be "beneficial" but not actually address the root cause...I'll get back w/ my status as things progress.<br /><br />Thanks and happy boating!

 

[itstippy]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

It sounds to me like your low speed (idle) jet's clogged. Can't advance the throttle enough in Neutral to kick in the hign jet. Flip it to Forward and you can advance the throttle enough for the roller cam to pull the throttle open and let the high speed jet kick in. Clean the carb.

 

[67johnson]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

The same thing is going on with my 67 johnson v4 i cleaned the carb but the same problem when i almost turned the low speed needles closed it would idle but than it cant start. but if i shift it to F and give it gas it will take off. I still cant fix the problem.

 

[itstippy]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

When I said "clean the carb" I should have said "overhaul the carb". Carefully, with a new carb kit, and taking the time to remove the little silver plug and clean the orafices in there.

 

[lark2004]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

Flywheel nut is 105 ft/lbs. no less.<br /><br />When you go to get the carb kit, make sure you get the one with a plastic float in it. The old cork floats aren't suitlable for use with todays fuels.<br /><br />Also be real carefull when/if you remove the little silver freeze plug on top of the carb. There is not much room underneath it, and any damage to the ports will be very difficult to repair properly. These ports are a very important part of the idle circuit.

 

[ketron47]

Re: Difficulty getting motor to idle in neutral (all of a sudden)

While working on my 71 Evinrude, 60hp I discovered that the notch on the rotor(holds it on the driveshaft) had worn off evenly with the housing. Never would have found it unless I had inspected it VERY CLOSE since it is located up under the housing; which is dome shaped.