Cylinders #1 and 3 no spark at high rpm's yamaha 150 vmax..

[oonighttrain]

after checking fuel supply, compression etc, it appears that after I put a timing light on all wires while running the motor at about 3000 rpms, ive got a bigtime drop in spark on #1 and #3.. my next step is to switch coils from other sparking cylinders to see the the lack of spark follows those coils.. unless anyone has another good idea I can try..? thanks in advance for any input!!

 

[99yam40]

Monitor the voltage to the coils maybe.

Not sure if this motor has charge coil feeding CDI or if is a 12 system

 

[oonighttrain]

thanks for the input. can you give me some insight on how thats done?
the motor is a 2003 yamaha v150tlrb (carb motor).

 

[99yam40]

here is some reading for you
There is Yamaha info and specs starting on pages 97
http://issuu.com/cdielectronics/docs...owFlipBtn=true

 

[oonighttrain]

thanks for that info 99yam!! so, when I got home from work I tried changing the coils around. the problem stayed with the original #1 and #3 cylinders.. so, a buddy of mine loaned me a manual. I started by testing the pulser coil output which, if I did it correctly (im pretty sure I did) the voltage read substancially lower than specs, it says to replace pulser coil.. I called him to affirm my findings, he agreed but, told me to check the cdi output before buying any parts.. again, if I did that correctly, the voltage was low which then the book says to check charger coil.. it was also low voltage, then says to replace charger coil.. is it possible to have a bad charger and pulser coil???

 

[99yam40]

What are you measuring the peak voltages with to compare to specs?
If you do not use the proper test equipment you will not get something to compare to what is in the manual

 

[oonighttrain]

i was using a cheapy harbor freight cen tech meter.. my buudy told me the same thing, that my meter may not read the peak voltages.. I may have to borrow one from someone to get an accurate reading.. would a fluke or fieldpiece do what im looking for??

and I sincerely appreciate your help!! thanks!!

 

[99yam40]

nope you need a meter made for these motors or a regular meter with a DVA adapter

 

[oonighttrain]

ok, so I got my hands on a meter that's supposed to do the job..

I followed the instructions in the manual..

tested the cdi output on wire to coil #2, I got a reading of .43v @3000 rpm.. that then tells me to measure charge coil output...

red wire charge coil wire: blue point meter says: OUCH which to me would be beyond specs which then says to measure pulser coil...

wht/red pulser coil wire reads .482 at 1500 rpm and 1.01 at 3000 rpm.. that, according to the manual says replace pulser coil..

any of that making any sense to someone that actually knows about motors and electricity? lol..

 

[99yam40]

Ouch is not an electrical measurement
What did the other cylinders read
we have no idea of what meter you are using

 

[oonighttrain]

when it said ouch I interpreted it meaning overload.. I didn't look at the others unfortunately.. I was going by the photo in the manual when I checked the wire to coil #2.. the meter is a blue point mt586b set on volts max rec.

 

[99yam40]

My guess is that meter is not made for reading these marine ignition systems.
The Fluke 87 I have has a peak read setting, but does not work on these motors so I had to get a DVA adapter

Did you read the stuff on CDI testing in that link I posted

Also testing a good one and comparing it to the bad usually helps to see if reading are different

 

[oonighttrain]

thanks again for the info!

I was told that the meter would do the job but, that may not be the case, I sure wish I knew for sure.. lol

I did read that and have it printed out in front of me, im gonna be testing again today using there directions.. im gonna go perform there rectifier test right now, not going to spend too much time on it during the day today, its hotter than he11 down here in florida, I usually wait until the sun goes down a bit..

 

[oonighttrain]

it ran the same with the rectifier unplugged..

 

[oonighttrain]

well I guess its been determined I don't have a meter with dva so, I looked at the info from cdi again and did the resistance checks... heres what I got:

wht/rd trigger to wht/grn: supposed to be 280-430, mine was 314
wht/rd trigger to ground: supposed to be open, mine was .8m
wht/grn to ground: supposed to be open, mine was .9m

wht/ylo trigger to wht/brn: supposed to be 280-30, mine was 321
wht/ylo to ground: supposed to be open, mine was 1.1m
wht/brn to gound: supposed to be open, mine was .7m

brown stator wire to red stator wire: supposed to be 840-1260, mine was .7k
brown to ground supposed to be: open. mine was open.
red stator wire to ground: supposed to be open, mine was 9m
blue stator wire to blk/rd stator: supposed to be 65-130, mine was open
blue to ground: supposed to be open, mine was 49k
blk/rd stator to ground: supposed to be open, mine was open.

the cdi doiagnostics page says to test a wht/blk and wht/blu wire but, I don't have those on my motor...

 

[99yam40]

I am guessing the m you post is Megohms

Looks like your high speed charge coil from under the flywheel is bad
Blue to blk/rd open and partially grounded

Low speed is out of spec some too if this is not an aftermarket unit like shown on page 100
700 is .7K
You might try setting the scale manually instead of auto ranging if that is possible on that meter

Not sure where you got those spes (Probably page 100) as they do not match up to the ones in the spec sheets
Look at page 113

for the 2003 VX150
224-336 on both charge coils

294-398 on triggers

 

[oonighttrain]

i got the info from the outboardignition.com cdi website:
http://www.outboardignition.com/yamahasearch.asp?cat=itemname&cval=15&hval=43&val=6

 

[oonighttrain]

i looked at the troubleshooting guide for my particular cdi which is: 64d-85540-10-00

 

[oonighttrain]

sooo.. I got a dva adaptor.. tested the voltage to all the coils, it was right at about 200 on all of them (at idle 8-900rpm).

I tested the dva voltage from the trigger and stator. the only questionable thing I found was wht/rd to green trigger is supposed to be 2.5v minimum, mine was .1v

and blue stator wire to blk/rd stator wire is supposed to be 16v mine was 5.4v
and blue to ground is supposed to be 16v, mine was 4.5v
blk/rd to ground is supposed to be 16v, mine was 2.7v

this thing is making me crazy!!

I retested the resistance according to the specs, they were all different than they were yesterday..
the only issue I see is that the blue to blk/rd is supposed to be 65-130 ohms, mine was 32 ohms once and then 15m the next...

after all of this I did not test anything at the rpm where my problem is happening which is about 3000, I hate to run it at 3000 rpm on the hose so, all of this
testing may be for nothing..

 

[oonighttrain]

oh, forgot to mention that the motor had a bit of a hard time starting last night, and REALLY didn't want to start tonight.. and for some crazy reason the alarm was sounding while trying to start it tonight..... im beginning to think this this is possessed..