Cylinder Boring

NathanY

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Mar 16, 2002
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2,408
I found a replacement block for my 20 Merc, it is complete with pistons and everything, but one of the cylinders needs bored. If I one I will bore both and go with .015 oversized pistons, will this change the HP or compression? Should I go bigger? What is the most recommended? I dont want a paper thin sleeve either though.
 

G DANE

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Nov 24, 2001
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2,476
Re: Cylinder Boring

Hi NathanY<br /><br />Oversize bore does not change compression other than gaining what was lost due to wear. Oversizes pistons are adjusted to same weight as standard. If you calculate change is displacement you will see Hp doesnt change. Sleves are usually 1/2" thick, 0.015 doesnt matter at all, no need to worry.
 

Solittle

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Apr 28, 2002
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7,518
Re: Cylinder Boring

Many will offer that if you need to punch out one you will be better off in the long haul, if you plan to keep the motor for a while, to do both.
 

Waterbugtoo

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Nov 19, 2002
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Re: Cylinder Boring

Boring oversize absolutely DOES increase compression and HP. It may not be noticable with operating that little motor, but they DO both increase.
 

G DANE

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Nov 24, 2001
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Re: Cylinder Boring

Not to start a long arguing, but should the displacement increase from enlarging bore with 0.015" increase Hp significiant, others than the lost performance from wear and lack of original stock compresion ?
 

dmessy

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Jul 8, 2001
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505
Re: Cylinder Boring

Very minimal displacement increase, naturally. HP increase? You'd have to have a well calibrated dyno to measure any difference and it would be very minimal, at best. Ambient conditions would change the HP more than that amount of bore.
 

Forktail

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Feb 11, 2002
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Re: Cylinder Boring

Hi Nathan.<br /><br />First, make sure you bore both cylinders. This will ensure that the engine will be balanced when you are completed. Not all over-sized pistons will be equal in weight to the standard, stock piston. <br /><br />Some machine shops get in a hurry and forget to lightly hone the bore and smooth the piston port chamfers. Make sure they do this. Also make sure you replace the wrist pin, wrist pin bearings, wrist pin retainers, and rings.<br /><br />Next, I could be wrong, but you might not find parts for a .015 over-sizing, especially with non-oem parts. Most over-sizing is done in .020, .030, .040, etc sizes. A good machinist will need the actual pistons when doing the boring so he can match up the transfer ports with the skirt design and take actual measurements.<br /><br />Yes, oversizing will change the HP. All things being equal, HP increases with displacement and you are increasing displacement. In short, there is more air/fuel charge volume available to make power. Although in a small outboard like this the difference may not be felt seat-of-the-pants. Here are some calculations for displacement:<br /><br />.7854 (a constant) X the bore" squared X the stroke" X number of cylinders = cubic inch displacement.<br /><br />cubic inch displacement (cid) X 16.39 (a conversion) = cubic centemeters (cc)<br /><br />For example:<br /><br />.7854 X 2.56" squared X 2.38" X 2 = 24.5 cid or X 16.39 = 402 cc.<br /><br />increasing the bore .020:<br /><br />.7854 X 2.58" squared X 2.38" X 2 = 24.9 cid or 408 cc.<br /><br />Compresion ratio is the relationship between the cylinder volume when the piston is at TDC (top dead center), compared to the cylinder volume when the piston is at BDC (bottom dead center).<br /><br />Should you go bigger? Well, unless you are boring strictly for performance (hot-rodding), the object is to remove only as much material as necessary to smooth and straighten the cylinder walls. Again, this is usually in steps that relate to the over-sized parts you will be installing.<br /><br />One additional thing....from my experience I would recommend you increase your main jet size (and possibly other fuel circuts) when over-sizing. A larger bore means increased air intake volumes. You will need to match this increased air volume intake with fuel or you could find yourself running too lean. And that means another rebuild.<br /><br />Hope this helps. :)
 

Pascal

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Jul 9, 2002
Messages
252
Re: Cylinder Boring

I agree with Forktail on most of the points he makes. <br /><br />For sure, boring only one of the cylinders will create an imbalance in power between the two cylinders. First, because of the increased area of the cylinder, the combustion pressure will exert more force on the power stroke and second because the combustion pressures will increase due to the increase in compression ratio.<br /><br />In Forktails example, the original cylinder bore gave a displacement of 201 cc per cylinder. If a compression ratio of 8:1 is used, the combustion chamber volume will be 25.12 cc.<br /><br />Boring the cylinder .020” brings the displacement volume of one cylinder to 204 cc. With the same piston design and combustion chamber volume, the new compression ratio will be 8.12:1<br /><br />The combination of increased area and increased combustion pressures due to the small CR increase will result in several hundred extra pounds of force on the bored cylinders piston during the power stroke and a “rockin’” engine. <br /><br />The unbored cylinder will also deteriorate more quickly than the newly machined one making a further problem down the road…....er…lake.<br /><br />In short – you will be happier with the job if you bore both holes.
 

ODDD1

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Jan 23, 2001
Messages
1,054
Re: Cylinder Boring

Nathan, boring just one cylinder is a perfectly acceptable repair....you did not say how old this motor is, I am assuming it is one of the older iron bore, crossflow motors.....in which case, the ONLY oversize available from the manufacturer is a .015" oversize.....because the iron sleeve is only about 1/16" thick, going larger than that on the oversize can cause problems with port cracking, bore distortion....Now, I live in the real world, not engineer land...will the compression and HP go up? of course they will, but certainly not enough that you will EVER notice.
 

NathanY

Commander
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Mar 16, 2002
Messages
2,408
Re: Cylinder Boring

I know to bore both, but I found parts through the outboard exchange to go .015, .020,and.030 over. I was just wondering which one to go with. The engine is a 1974 Merc 20 hp block that i want to build as a back up.
 

Forktail

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Feb 11, 2002
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977
Re: Cylinder Boring

Nathan, again you want to remove only as much material from the cylinder as necessary. To pre-determine this you will need to take critical measurements of the cylinder and its damage. By all means if a .015 over-size is available for your outboard, and it will clean up the cylinder adequately, then you should go with it. Over-sizing more than necessary doesn't leave you much room to over-size again...if you have to.<br /><br />Compression ratios are more commonly increased by changing piston and/or head design rather than boring. An example would be Yamaha's 115 and 130 hp 2-strokes. Both engines have the exact same bore and stroke, but the 130 hp has a compression ratio of 6.8:1 vs. the 115's 6.5:1. <br /><br />"boring just one cylinder is a perfectly acceptable repair"<br /><br />That would depend on what "acceptable" is to you. The over-sized piston probably weighs more than the stock piston, and can hardly be matched and balanced with it. And if an aftermarket piston is used, it will be designed different than the stock one, and perhaps be made from a forged alloy rather than a stock cast alloy. Best advice...bore them both and replace with a matched set of similar sized pistons.<br /><br />"I live in the real world, not engineer land..."<br /><br />You should get out more. :rolleyes: <br /><br />There are many engineers that live in the "real world"....say like the one's who designed the outboard you use!
 

sloopy

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Jul 12, 2002
Messages
2,999
Re: Cylinder Boring

HI nathin! if you get them bored out all the way, you will have more hoursepower, BUT if you ruin it again you might have to put a sleave in, and that can cost more then the block it self can.! also the machine shop clean the block, blast the paint off, clean the water ports, and the crancase. they usualy do it for free when you get it done (banco here in WV does) but if they charge extra for that, just get it, it makes your block look so much better!
 

SCO

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Aug 19, 2001
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1,463
Re: Cylinder Boring

If you increase diameter and have the same stroke, the compression will increase some as the head volume remains the same and you can calculate based on bore, stroke, and tdc compression prior to rebore. 402/408 is dammmn near 1 therefore not much different, but a dynamic imbalance caused by different pistons/ materials/compression differences stacked up might be a problem. Id make my decision based on cost to do the job and value of the engine. On my engine"73 vintage" I'd do 1 cyl just to find out for myself. On a 99 model, I'd do both for sure to be safe. I decide these things without much real world experience and so am more conservative. Real world empirical data and experience is hard to beat. Good engineering works too and gets you by in unknown territory. When you have good engineering combined with real world experience and empirical data, you build Indy cars for a living!
 

Dhadley

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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Cylinder Boring

If you use a OE, Wiseco or Vertex piston the assembly weight will be within OE specs from standard to the largest oversize. We have tested mixing sizes and (these) brands in the same motor with no problems. <br /><br />We had a V4 looper once that had 1 .030 and 3 standard holes. It turned 7600-7800 and we ran it all year. We raced a stock class that did not allow "balancing". We ran it "as produced" and never had a problem. The following year we ran an all .030 block and had the same rpm and speed.<br /><br />As the guys have mentioned, once your machine shop measures the cylinder for wear you will know if you are going to bore one or both. I would bet on both.<br /><br />Good luck!
 
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