Coast Guard Rating Plate

[jm]

Early 70's Chrystler tri-hull has a plate that says it was placed by the coast guard. The max engine hp says 75. I want to purchase a 115hp. Two questions:<br /><br />1. Is there any physical harm that could come from me putting this motor on other than me being stupid and running the boat too fast and flipping it.<br /><br />2. Is that plate just guidelins or is it the law and what are the penalties for putting on a larger motor? If that is law, can I have the boat re-rated?

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

Its not illegal to over power a boat unless a law enforcement agency veiws it as a dangerous situation or there are local city, county, state laws that cover overpowering that the Coast Guard has left open to user descrimination. Florida allows you to do whatever you want long as it is viewed as not life threatning endangering. Example.: 70 HP on a 12' Lowe aluminum V-hull. Consider the weight factor of the bigger engine and really how fast it will go. GENERALLY, if the performance enhancement is only 10 mph, your not really going to hurt anything. Keep in mind, the old rating of 75 HP is equivelent to todays 65 HP only, because of power head rating versus prop rating. And the 115 hp you want to put on is equal to an old 125 hp roughly. In reality you are DOUBLING the horse power which is roughly a 50% increase in speed. This sudden jump in power could be viewed as dangerous by some law enforcement agencies and cited as "unsafe equipment" unless the boat has been beefed up specificly for this use and also additional flotation. Add to this the fact that your insurance may not cover the boat anymore or could be cancelled or refused. 60-70 hp jump to 115 also ads 100 lbs. + to the back of the small boat too. To be on the safe side, find an outboard tha weighs the same or about the same as the old specified max HP engine with maybe jus' 10-20 hp more (base this on converting old power head rating to prop, roughly 10 hp less, another words, no more than a NEW 75-95 HP engine) if ya wanna play "experimentor". In this case, US Boat will still insure under most circumstances as they did with my "bigger motor" situation. As Mg says below, they will get you for unsafe equipment if you get to crazy with a bigger engine (115 HP), BUT only if it is off the deep end per say. You will get a significant performance gain by only adding a small amount of hp in your case with a new motor. And I reitterate, as Mg says also...keep in mind the strengths and weaknesses of your transom set up also...

 

[MGuckin]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

The information on the plate is mandated by the Coast Guard. It is derived from a very lengthy testing procedure which the manufacturer must adhere to.<br />It takes into consideration hull integrity, stability, weight transfer and numerous other factors.<br />Insurance companies use this as a factor when deciding whether to insure a boat or not.<br />If increasing the horsepower by the amount you want, a few things may happen.<br />Coast Guard can fine you.<br />Insurance company can deny coverage.<br />You may tear the transom or the hull apart. Not neccessarily a speed issue but more of a handling problem.

 

[jm]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

The boat is 15.5' in length. It will mostly be used in Seminole county FL and possible the intercostal water way. We will not be running the boat fast enough to be dangerous. The reason why I want this particular motor is that it will be large enough to push a 19' boat that I will be purchasing later in the year. My 15.5' boat's motor need's to be replaced and I can't see buying less when I know it will be on a larger boat later. Bottom line will this violate the law if I run it at safe speeds (not life endangering.)

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

Todays 115 HP would put you at 60 mph on a small hull never designed to go that fast... you are entering the realm of aerodynamics also at this speed which was never a consideration of this particular design you should shoot more for 90 hp tops if you wanna go this route, but remember, your on your own......Remember your boat is over 30 years old and the glass is brittle and the wood soft.....Its not the speed, there are no speed limits unless otherwise marked here in Florida, its the overall appearance and configuration of the boat and motor sitting in the water. EX.: 2" freeboard with no people in the boat. Here in Florida you will be able to get away with it if your carefull. Keep the old motor to reinstall and sell the boat, if it still runs, and if ya got a deal on a new one ya can't refuse.

 

[jm]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

Thanks for the info. Looks like i'm going to either wait to buy the motor and boat at the same time or pick up this motor and not install it (if I can resist the temptation.)

 

[Darryl]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

I have posted below a cut from the State of Florida web site. It seems that it is indeed illegal to overpower a boat. I am not trying to rain on anyones parade as mine is rained on too as I have an 80 hp on a boat that is limited to 70 hp. I bought the used 15.5 foot bass boat a few months ago. It is very hard to see the rated horse power and I had to use a magnfying glass to read it.<br /><br />Darryl<br /><br />327.52 Maximum loading and horsepower.-- <br /><br />(1) Except for sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats, this section applies to all monohull motorboats less than 20 feet in length that are: manufactured or used primarily for noncommercial use; leased, rented, or chartered to another for the latter's noncommercial use; or engaged in the carrying of six or fewer passengers for hire. <br /><br />(2) No person shall sell or offer for sale any vessel described in subsection (1) unless said vessel displays the maximum capacity information as prescribed in 33 C.F.R. part 183. This shall not apply to resales, but it is the intent of this section to require dealers and manufacturers to furnish this information upon the original sale. <br /><br />(3) No person shall operate any vessel described in subsection (1) when said vessel exceeds the maximum weight capacity, maximum persons capacity, or maximum horsepower capacity. If no maximum capacity information is displayed, the capacities shall be calculated as provided in 33 C.F.R. part 183, subparts C and D. This subsection shall not preclude the finding of reckless operation under s. 327.33(1) when a vessel is operated in a grossly overloaded or overpowered condition.

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

If you read item 1. it covers commercial use of non commercial use manufactured craft being used for commercial use. read it carefully<br />By simply removing the rating plate, which you can do as a owner, you change the whole certification proccess by which the boat is rated and certified. In additon, you ar not required to "certify" the boat. By simply putting a bigger motor, within reason, you, personally, have created a homebuilt boat. I have never in all of my boating life in Florida, EVER seen anybody written up for overpowering based exclusivly on HP rating of the placard. BUT.... I have known many people who were cited on section 327.33(1) as a rather common occurance.<br /> This is the loop hole in which the boat becomes a homebuilt boat or home modified. The statutes intent for legality and liability purpose is to keep "dealers" and rental agencies in the state of florida from selling or renting "dangerous" NEW products. The loop hole for "LAW ENFORCEMENT" is:<br /><br />327.33(1) when a vessel is operated in a grossly overloaded or overpowered condition. <br /><br />(example again: Lowe 12' 85 lb. aluminum V-hull with a 60 hp tiller strapped on the back)<br /><br />The key word is "GROSSLY".This is basicly judgement call by law enforcement..........<br /><br />In all cases the overwhelming consideration is floataion and weght distribution as I have stated earlier.......This is experince from 20 years of professional boat aftermarket modifications and additions in the marine welding and fabricating buisness. If only HP was the consideration of legality, most 100 MPH bass boats would be illeagal by the Coast Guard formulas.

 

[DJ]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

jm,<br /><br />You're playing with fire here. I believe any law enforcement officer looking at your rig with a 115 vs. a rating of 75 would determine your boat to be "grossly" overpowered. A 115 on a 15 1/2' boat, particularly of that vintage and style, is an invitation for the "law" to give you the third degree.<br /><br />An insurance company MAY insure you. However that does not cover you for an accident that may be determined to be your fault. The overpowering of the boat automatically puts you in the defense seat as opposed to leaving open the possibility of the incident being purely "accidental".<br />A pliantiff attorney would have a "field day" with such a case.<br /><br />There is just too much weasel room here for an aggressive attorney to fry you or an insurance company to deny coverage.<br /><br />If the engine is a super deal, figure a way to buy it and sit on it for a while.

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

djohns is rite and this goes along with what I said earlier in my second post on this thread....70-95 HP, maybe, but 115...hmmmm, would definitly approach "grossly" appearance.....

 

[gto]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

Seems to me you thought about it enought to justify your reasons. so just be sure you have enough floatation devices for eveyone and don't get to much total weight in your Boat. keep as much of the extra weight as you can to the front of the boat. watch out for those quick stops

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

gto has it too...if ya add the weight of the new motor you must compensate by limiting the person capacity and reloacating batteries and fuel. That way additional flotation is of no concern. Example: 4 people and 75 HP or 850 lb of people motor, gear and fuel. New motor is 300lbs, 18 gal fuel @ 6 lbs /gal, batt. 50 lbs, oil 10 lbs = 468 lbs used up, 382 lbs left for people, lifevest and all other gear. As a commercial pilot I go thru this weight and balance thing everytime I takeoff as should ALL boat owners..............IF law enforcement questions you about your boats appearance.....explain the guide lines and ways you have worked out the boats configuration. Jus' 'cause the plate says 6 people does not mean that in every circumstance. Thats why the TOTAL weight restriction is on the the plate also. In addition, balancing the boat REMOVES the APPEARANCE of a funny looking, transom down, overpowered boat that has "PULL ME OVER" written all over it with six "BOBS" sitting in it jus' 'cause the motor can handle the weight.. My "small boat tournement bass boat" was originally rated 25 hp and 5 people. Since complete overhaul and major hull modifications, the floatation has remained the same as has the general total weight of the boat. The HP rating is now upto 60 HP. BUT only carries 3 people or 500lbs of people and gear with the new motor setup and battery.

 

[ICEMAN]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

HI everyone, I have to add my two cents. First the Federal Law requires that single hull vessels, less than 20 feet in length, have a capacity plate. With the exception of a few vessels. In some states it is a direct violation of their laws to exceed any part of the capacity plate. It is also a violatoion to alter or deface the capacity plate. Some state law enforcement people, can and do give tickets for overpowering the vessel. Insurance companies will inquire about the horsepower you have on the boat, if it's too high, they can deny insurance. Next, there are a lot of dealers that refuse to service a motor that is on a boat with a lower rating, due to the possiblity of being sued by some scum lawyer.

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

ICEMAN read the post in their entirety..............and the laws you are talking about are for "dealers" and rental agents, manufactures...laws here in Florida allow you to modify the boat to your needs within reason without government infringment. The person in question IS a Florida resident and thats what this disscussion is about...FLORIDA......We are fully aware of the differences in the states regs and thats all been covered. What you do with your boat in this state is mostly entirely up to you within reason. Fortunately, this is a state that is still conservative and does not regulate the color of your underware like they do in the New England area...yet at least...

 

[MGuckin]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

Remember this post? I wonder what the spec plate says.

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

Heh-Heh............looks like it used to seat 6 the otherway around? <br />and one big turkey in the middle

 

[Darryl]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

Flyboymark,<br /><br />I have read it again and am still convinced that it applies to pleasure boats. Read it again and pay special attention to the puntuation. As meantioned above, the spirit of the law could be circumvented.<br /><br />Darryl

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

John, my father was a boat dealer for many years and I can tell you that no dealer would put power over the mfgrs data plate number, EVER! The liability to the dealer (he becomes a mfgr when he puts any motor on the back of a boa) is immense AND his insurance would not pay in the event of an incident. The risk to an owner who installed a too big motor is more subtle. You could be successfully sued by any injured party in the event of an accident and you would probably have an insurance carrier that would cut and run. The legal risk is too high to ever repower higher than the data plate allows.<br />Just my thoughts.<br />Jim

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

Of course Wilde.....and no dealer in this state would too. But YOU'RE in NJ and this is about Florida...again. And this has nothing to do with NEW boats....again. And the boat in question is an old boat that YOU can do what ever YOU want with in THIS state GAURDED by:<br /><br />327.33(1) when a vessel is operated in a grossly overloaded or overpowered condition.<br /><br />The key word is "GROSSLY".This is basicly judgement call by law enforcement..........<br /><br />Insurance companies WILL insure you in........... THIS STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!THE OBJECT OF THIS DISSCUSSION!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Coast Guard Rating Plate

I have a 15' Steury Tri-hull with a 6' beam. The darn boat is HEAVY and the fiberglass is thick. Mine is rated at the CG plate at 100 hp. With my lazy 85 hp Johnson on the back it will do 41 mph with me alone and 36 mph with 4 people. I jsut thought I would give you the size vs hp.<br /><br />Cut the chase.....look for a bigger boat with a bigger motor now.<br /><br />Bob