Clean Points every year?

[BuzzStPoint]

Last year I had to clean and set the points, change a condenser. Had the motor running great all season.
This year it was running rough and missing. So I changed the other condenser and rechecked the points gap. Still ran rough missing on the upper cylinder.

Ended up cleaning the points and the motor is running smooth.
Is this a yearly thing that should/needs to be done?
Or is something else going on that could be fouling the points?

1970 Chrysler 55HP

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Clean Points every year?

Too much oil or grease on the points wicks will foul the points contacts. The wicks should be just damp with oil, just enough to lubricate the cam. a drop or two is more than sufficient.

If your engine does not have wicks, just a dab of grease behind the plastic rubbing block is enough

 

[wickware]

Re: Clean Points every year?

I think I was fouling my points with too much cam lube grease or oil. It appeared as if I was getting crankcase blow-by/vapor into the ignition area. I degreased the oily looking area (that is not as oily looking as the other pic or actual look). Then I used less grease on the cam and ran the 70 35HP Chrysler hard (LOL) 30 ish MPH about 8 miles. Re-checked for signs of blow-by/vapor directly after the hard run w/o seeing any signs (attached). I think this told me I was too heavy on the oil or grease vs blowby??. Good Luck! jow

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Clean Points every year?

Now that you mention that. I haven't greased mine since I got the outboard. so I'm thinking on your lines it's the blow by. How would I stop that? Never had the plate off the engine.

 

[wickware]

Re: Clean Points every year?

Forgive me Frank! I feel I would retire my boat before I pull the plate and bushing/seal if it?s allowing blow-by (which I feel is not common if properly maintained with mix). BUT! Consider finding the points and condenser ?to Specs? vs any condenser (I have heard you mention). I learned with VWs that any condensed vs the correct condenser would allow the points to pit or burn yearly or prematurely (transfer metal) vs residual cleaning?? I have gone over 5-10 years w/o cleaning my points due to hesitation, stumbling or backing off WOT ?warm?. Last, how much does area?s humidity affect points??? Jow

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Clean Points every year?

That carrier plat is held to the crankcase by four flat head screws. Pull off the points plate and it comes right off. There is an O ring seal under it in addition to the crankshaft seal. SO, if it were allowing blow-by, it is a simple 20 minute fix.

Condensers are matched to the system characteristics and no, I suppose not any one will do to prevent pitting. I don't remember, but I may have said something like--If you cant find the stock condenser try any one-- Hail mary move!

However, as far as I know, point contacts are tungsten and humidity per se should not affect them greatly. Although, remember that nothing is ever etched in stone. I suspect that salty air would affect them to some greater degree than non salty.

 

[wickware]

Re: Clean Points every year?

Excuse me Frank! I was referring to Buzz comments of using any auto condenser in the past. I hope the possible blow-by matter is as easy as it sounds but ?is it common?? I have seen it in lawn mowers before electronic ignition and converted them to electronic to solve the problem. jow

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Clean Points every year?

Yeah, I have automotive condensers on my outboard. I was told by a outboard service and salvage guy in the area that you can use an automotive condenser. Told me to match it up by size. Perhaps that could be the issue.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Clean Points every year?

You know, Wick---I have a lot of Chrysler and Force engines in various sizes. One thing all of them have in common is that the top bearing depends upon "splash" oil only for lubrication. Obviously, no oil settles on them like the lower bearings and seals. You would think that the top seal would fail before any other one. Some of my engines have a lot of hours on them and yet I have yet to see a worn crankshaft top seal on any one of them. I suspect that it is a relatively rare failure unless an engine is severely overheated --enough to seize-- or run without any oil.

I think some later Force engines made by Merc did have an oil recycle hose feeding the top bearing but don't quote me on that.

 

[wickware]

Re: Clean Points every year?

BuzzStPoint:

1. If you have not lubed your point's cam, I wonder if the rubbing block is wearing and changing your point settings?

2. Please give a little brief history. How long have you owned and serviced the motor?

3. Has this been a yearly problem from the start or after the original points and condensers were replaced?

4. Are the points burning and depositing metal on one contact or the other or grime (I call it)? Do you have a close pic of the ignition system to post?

5. My VW experience with the wrong condenser causing the points to burn in weeks was related to the length of the pigtail on the wrong condensers. Possibly other specs were off also. The problem was so common with the cheaper condenser, we were told to loop the excess wire around metal tubing to reduce whatever in the condenser and reduce burning the points.

6. Is there a brand name of condensers and points that are known to work well with Chrysler Motors? jow

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Clean Points every year?

Coming up one full year will be my ownership of this out board.

Last summer it would start but bucked and missed. Upon inspection I found the top cylinder not firing. Normal "automotive" checks showed the points dirty, out of gap and a condenser bad.
So I replaced it. pulled carb and cleaned, replaced all fuel line and hoses. Dropped the lower unit, converted it to a short shaft, replaced the impeller and all lower end seals and gaskets and lower unit oil.

I got the condenser at Advance auto Parts

BWD Condenser
Part # G10AZ Clickity Click
They should have them in stock normally.

After that it ran like a champ. Started up just by bumping the key and ran great the rest of the summer/fall.

This year I replaced the gear oil, Replaced the fuel pump bowl gasket, checked compression, cleaned and gapped spark plugs. Fired up but had like a buck or a mis every now and then at idle. Under acceleration seemed fine but not up to par.

Took it home, check the points gap and it was spot on, so I replaced the other condensor. (only replaced one the 1st time.) Took it out and the same thing. Borrowed a timing light and seen the top cylinder was missing every once in awhile. So I pulled the flywheel and cleaned the points. Now it seems to run nice and sparking at all times. But I haven't had it on the water yet because I stripped the flywheel nut.

They didn't look like any metal was burnt on them just a dark color over 1/2 of the points.

 

[wickware]

Re: Clean Points every year?

Do you have any info from the previous owner or a Tech?s diagnostic on this matter? Points and condensers yearly seems excessive ?But I Guess We Did It In The 60s? if the miles or hours dictated the need. jow

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Clean Points every year?

No, This was a craigslist outboard I bought, Guess he did some work for a guy that couldn't pay him so he took it on trade.

The 2nd condenser I changed, was one that came with it so I dont know how long it's been in there. Also to tell the truth I dont know if it was bad. I replaced it because I didn't have timing light at the time so it was a process of elimination type of thing.

As for a "tech" nope, The outboard techs around there charge an arm and a leg to work on, and the other service center won't work on outboard this old. There are two guys that deal with old outboards. They are the Go to guys for the outboards around here.

Since this will be a full summer I'll have to monitor it and see how long the points keep.