Chrysler Sailor 250

[oldboat1]

About a month ago, I picked up a 1978 Sailor (10 hp, mod. 101H8A). The short story seems to be that the lower unit might be a mismatch. The gearshift works fine, except that pulling the lower shift rod up shifts into reverse, and I think pulling it up should shift into forward gear. The upper shift rod (motor end) is pulled up when shifting into forward. I initially thought this was an adjustment issue (lower rod), but now think the lower unit is incompatible with the engine. (This is the extra long sailor lower, with the oversized prop -- but maybe the wrong Sailor lower unit for this engine?) Any ideas on this? I haven't been into the gearcase, and prefer not to be. I replaced the impeller and wear plate, and the driveshaft seals above and below the impeller housing -- thought for a while that maybe removing the driveshaft from the gearcase messed things up (moved the lower shift rod while the shaft was out, for example), but on disassembly it appears the seating the driveshaft depends only on spline alignment. So I don't know what to do from here. If somebody did a fix on the gearcase, is it possible that gear assembly was reversed somehow?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Chrysler Sailor 250

There's no way the gears can get reversed.
Pics of the unit?
The shift shouldn't be changable.
Is it a remote shift?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler Sailor 250

OK! The smaller Chrysler (and Force) engines used a cam with three detents in the lower unit to shift. The center shaft was spring loaded and pulling up on the lower shift rod would indeed move the cam to the deepest detent, engaging forward gear.

However, Sailor models used the gearcase and similar lower unit as the larger 35,45, 50, and 55 engines. This gearcase uses a different actuating system, exactly like the gear selector for the bigger 75-140 engines. This system uses down as forward and up as reverse. When mated to a 8-15 hp engine to create the sailor model. I suspect that the upper linkage inside the engine cowl was changed since there is no room to change the gearcase internal linkage.

This is actually a surprise to me because I have several sailor models and never considered the linkage. If you are patient and the weather is not too cold, I will go down into my garage and inspect the linkage on my sailor models then report back with my findings.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Chrysler Sailor 250

Plenty of time. As to the weather, we are now retired in upstate NY (Penn Yan -- Keuka Lake), and winter has just begun. I need to change my info -- searched the archived and see that I was fretting about a Chrysler 10 or 12 years ago when last fooling around with old outboards, I think. And I'm thinking I ran into this forward/reverse issue before when switching out legs -- but don't know how I resolved it. I think I just left the connections reversed.

I don't have a pic to share, but the powerhead had no tiller, and no shift selector lever in front under the hood release knob -- no holes or remnants of a selector lever, so think this engine was manufactured for remote use -- which also makes me think the long Sailor lower unit is probably original to the engine. But I'm not sure -- haven't found a part number or two on the lower unit yet, so can't match up with my catalogue parts description. I added a two-lever remote box and the proper Morse cables and ends (also the curved tiller handle replacement piece for remote steering). I want to use this motor as a kicker on my old Trojan cruiser, similar to an arrangement I had with a Chris Craft in Maryland. I tested out the engine before getting the remote box, and either just toggled the engine shift linkage without noting the direction (operated fine in FNR), or the thing was originally shifting in the right direction and I did something to change that in replacing the impeller and driveshaft seals. I didn't do anything yet re. the shaft linkage seal, so no disassembly there. I figured I would get to that and the gearshaft seals if it was needed after some more testing in the barrel (had some water in the oil).

I can't figure out how the linkage at the motor would be reversed, but maybe missing an obvious solution there. Frank -- will be curious to see if any of your Sailor lower units have a different shift arrangement. One other point: The service manual (4/77) for the 10 hp Sailor says the engine should be in forward gear for lower unit removal (shift rod raised on my motor), and the lower rod should be pulled up "into forward gear" to reinstall (i.e., to give access to the shift rod connector). The intent would be to lower the upper shift rod, and raise the lower one for access. I can do this, but the upper rod is lowered by shifting in reverse (contrary to instructions), and raising the lower rod into reverse (also contrary to instructions). geez.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Chrysler Sailor 250

should add a correction to my last post, although it probably doesn't bear on the problem I'm having: I checked the motor again, and there is a hole and tower in the pan where the shift selector is normally located at the front of the pan. There are no wear marks, so it doesn't look like the linkage was ever in place -- can't tell for sure, though.

Based on the service manuals I have, the lower unit I have could be from an 8 hp Sailor (lower shift rod pulled up for reverse in the 8 hp, according to the manual). The manual also states that the 8 hp. engine should be shifted into reverse when dropping the lower unit, which would indicate the upper shift rod drops (in reverse) to provide access to the rod coupling screw. This is consistent with what the Clymer manual states for 4.4-8 hp models.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler Sailor 250

Both my sailor model 250 engines have the shift in the front and appear to shift correctly so I am no help to you there.

However, the 8 horsepower engines did have a smaller diameter drive shaft and prop shaft so: An 8 horse lower could not be mated to your 250---unless the block was changed at one time. THIS is possible because the 8 through 15 horsepower blocks all looked and mounted exactly the same. Carbs were different but used the same advance plate on the magneto.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Chrysler Sailor 250

Thanks for checking. All of the electronics look like they should for the 10, but I guess somebody could have switched out the 10 block for an 8, if they are the same (carbs aside). I'll look for some other indicators (stamped parts numbers) and see if there are any clues. I have to think the driveshaft is the larger 10hp, though, because the 10hp seal kit I bought fit properly -- thinking the seals would have been loose on the smaller 8hp driveshaft. So as it stands, the motor is going to shift into reverse as long as the rod is pulled up -- as it will be when shifted into forward gear at the engine (upper shift rod lifted up).

The mystery remains. With the powerhead on, I can't tell whether the shift at the engine could be changed (such that pushing the gearshift lever under to cowling to the rear would put the gearcase in forward gear -- upper rod down, lower rod down). Both the engine and the gearcase seem to work well otherwise, though, so I think I'll just plan on moving the remote gearshift to the reverse position when I want to go forward. But it's too much of a mystery to leave alone completely, so I'm sure I'll keep fooling around with it a little.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Chrysler Sailor 250

think I may have been inventing a problem. Because there was (is) no manual shift lever on this motor (normally, lower front of cowling), I was assuming that the lever under the cowling was shifted into reverse when tilted toward the rear, and forward when tilted toward the front of the engine. If there had been a lever under the cowling front (and attached linkage), I think moving the lever left (FWD) would have pushed the under-cowling lever to the rear, pushing the shift rod down and the lower unit into forward gear. Pulling the internal lever forward (pulling the shift rod up) would put the gearshift into reverse -- as i think would happen when the under-cowling lever was shifted to the right, into REV. So I was making a couple of bad assumptions -- motor is shifting properly.