Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

[DistantGunfire]

Hi from Australia,

The engine I have purchased is a Chrysler 105hp 4 Cyl Model: 1059HF 1976, 105HP at 5000RPM.

The trouble I have is with it not pumping water properly. It has a telltale installed ontop of the head which only sometimes flows water with higher rpm, not at idle though. A fine mist/droplets of water are coming out the two ports on the back of the leg at idle. The engine does not have a thermostat installed.

I have replaced the water pump complete unit and while doing so I ran a hose up the brass pickup tube on the engine.
I done this with both the thermostat housing off and on and both times got very little water coming out the bottom of head or teltale. When housing is removed the water slightly runs out at idle.

NOW what I do get is 80% of water coming out of 2 holes located at the top of the brass pickup tube under the powerhead. What are these holes for?

I have pulled all covers off and all water channels are free from blockage as are the ports between them.

When I start the engine with the leg connected on muffs or in a tub all the water being pumped is coming straight back out the exhaust near the prop?! Filling up the leg?

I would be ever so greatfull with any input. I am at witts end.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

I have searched all throughout the iternet and have come across a few interesting posts.

Would these holes be the pressure release holes? They are near where the water pipe attaches to the powerhead.

This is where the water is gushing out. Is there some way to fix this?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

I'm not real familiar with your particular motor, but if it's like the later 4 cylinder Force motors, I don't think that there should be any water coming out from any holes at the top of the brass pickup tube under the power head. Do you have some pictures that you can post? Also there is a water by-pass valve located towards the bottom of the exhaust cover (item 95 ) on the diagram below. Sometimes it gets corroded and stops functioning like it should. I've heard of others that have disabled it to prevent this from happening. I think they plug it up. You may have a broken off piece of the old rubber impeller blade stuck up in the water passage to the block.

http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury-outboard/parts/1740_70.cfm

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Thanks for the reply. Yes that is the part.

Get ready for this... where the spring and stopper go in the whole side of the casing has broken off! I will have to get a photo for you guys to believe! I can see the spring from the outside of the engine with the release valve cover on! Oh my, the spring cannot move. It is totally corroded. I tried to undo the two bolts holding the cover and naturally, they snapped. What I will have to do is get to it with a small chiesel and take the housing cover off, remove spring and stopper and then plug it up.

Is there any drawbacks to blocking off the pressure release valve? Ones I could imagine are increase pressure on exhaust and head gaskets? Has anyone experience problems doing this?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

I don't think that there is any drawbacks to blocking the valve because in later model motors, they did away with it. There are no pressure relief passages in the later model blocks. If the valve is stuck , then I would suspect that this is why most of your cooling water is being dumped out through the pressure relief holes and not being routed to the block itself.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

lacking a photo, if the side of the block has broken out and you can see the spring, that is due to pressure from corrosion. There is a good chance that the block may need to be replaced.

However, yes, you can plug the pressure relief hole. Drill or clean it to bare metal and tap for a setscrew. Glue the setscrew with epoxy.Just be careful not to block the water passage behind it.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Thanks for your help guys, really appreciate it.

I will upload photo's this afternoon as it 8am here in Aus and off to work. I have a bad feeling about this engine.

I also have pics of the water jacket in the exhaust which shows some corrosion that im worried about. Also piston no. 2 & 4 show signs of scratches? Compression looks ok though at 140,130,135,133.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Can someone please let me know where exactly the water flows to once coming up the pickup tube. Does it first flow to the exhaust manifold and then to the pressure release valve or?

Also can the valve be blocked at some other point? I am a little worried to try pry out the spring and risk doing more damage than good.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Corrosion?

Oh My...

Can I fix this? Dig out old spring and valve and block the end off?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

After entering the brass water tube, water flows up and into the center of the match plate. Then it makes a 90 degree turn and flows out to the side of the match plate where there is a 3/4 inch square head pipe plug. It again makes a 90 degree turn and flows into the bottom of the block--just on the other side of the plastic pressure valve. It then fills the exhaust chamber water jacket and flows around the cylinders. When the thermostat opens, water flows down the head and exits into the midleg.

With the thermostat closed, water pressure pushes open the plastic plug and excess water bleeds back through the match plate into the midleg. Depending upon engine, Excess water may either be bled right from the block inlet OR it may be bled out through a special passage in the lower exhaust jacket near the valve itself.

There is no other place to seal the water. the valve must either be working or permanently shut

In either case, it is OK to seal the opening but in each case it is done in a different spot.

If your engine is older, when you pull out the plastic plug it will open a hole about 3/8 inch diameter from the plug to the water inlet.

If your engine is newer, there will be a thin cast aluminum wall between it and the water inlet. There will be a hole above the plastic plug. This hole must be plugged.

If it is leaking, do not worry about pulling the spring and plug. You can not do any more damage.

Your photos did not upload until after I originally answered. If it is not leaking because corrosion has sealed it, leave it alone. Your water jacket (and probably around the cylinders and inside the head) show sheavy accumulations these must be cleaned as they are reducing water flow.

That engine has been taken apartin the past. The factory did not use Permatex between crankcase halves or to seal the head cover.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Thanks again Frank. Did you see the pictures above? Bad, Yes I know. Whats worse is that it seems the spring and plug have been apoxied! The white stuff surrounding the spring is rock hard! I may need to get out the heat gun of freeze spray to try and remove it.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

the water is escaping out the holes under the power head though? Isnt the pressure relief the only channel here? It is flowing out these holes and stopping the water get to the head.

When I put the hole on the brass pipe the water gushed back out at the top at these holes?

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Is it time to remove the powerhead to see whats going on under where the water pipe joins?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

1. What holes under the powerhead? There are no holes under the powerhead, only two holes in the rear shroud called the idle relief vents and they are supposed to have water coming out of them.

2. No, that is not epoxy. It is corroded aluminum and yes it is rock hard. aluminum oxide has about 10 times the volume of mass aluminum metal. That's why the side of the block broke off. The corrosion simply pushed it out.

3. Again, if it is not leaking water now, don't pull out the spring and plastic plug. Simply epoxy over the whole thing with the equivalent of JB epoxy.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

When I plumb a hose to the brass pipe and turn it on, I am getting very little water out of the tell tale and idle relief ports. 80% of the water is coming out where the brass pipe runs up to under the powerhead. Where could this water be coming from? That is the problem. Or is there simply another drain hole up there?

I really appreciate your help Frank.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Ok I have split the power head from the Mid leg. There are 3 drain holes under the powerhead. One for the main brass tube and two other smaller holes close by.

It looks like the brass input tube seal could need replacing?

When I put the hose up the main water inlet on the powerhead, the water comes out the two small holes underneath with some force. Are these the pressure relief ports that we have spoke of? I may need to plug them?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Quite a bit of corrosion you have there. I suspect that you may have a problem with the adapter plate that is sandwiched between the block and lower leg. Looks like the holes you are referring to where water is coming out of are actually part of the adapter plate. I would agree that the seal at the top of the water tube should be replaced. It appears that the water is leaking between the block and the adapter plate itself. I've attached a picture of the adapter plate. The picture shows the top of the plate. This is the side that is mated to the block.


View attachment Chrysler 105 plate.pdf


I suspect that the water is leaking at the hole in the plate right where it is supposed to enter the block. I think you can also see the small holes where you see water coming out of in this picture.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Thank you pnwboat. So I take it those two holes are not meant to leak water? This would indicate the adapter plate not sealing to the bottom of the block as you say.

Once this is sealed the only water output is from the head water return which is the square hole on the adapter plate? Is this the only place water should be coming out?

Thanks again, you guys are real life savers

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!



I'm sorry, but I just don't see the holes you are describing. I do see a smaller hole in the approximate center of the match plate but this is actually communicating with the exhaust and should not have any water there.

These photos show what your adapter or match plate should look like minus the corrosion.

Later engines did not use the gasket between the match plate and the leg. If you remove all traces of gasket, coat the flange with a thin layer of RTV silicone and also put a thin layer of RTV on the water tube seal, it should be tight against water.

Lacking the abitity to see the holes you describe and given the corrosion I can see, I can only say that it probably is time to remove the four nylock nuts under the plate and remove the plate to see if there is a leak on the other side of it.

The ONLY two places where water should come out are at the square--it looks rectangular here--hole at the back of the match plate--covered partly by the gasket-- and the small circular hole --which may appear squared on your plate-- next to the forward bolt holding the exhaust downtube. This hole is the exit for the pressure relief valve which broke your block. Water should only exit here when the valve is forced open. This relief hole is right next to the thin wall of the water tube cast into the match plate and if the plate is perforated there, then water will preferentially run directly to the engine leg rather than up to the block and head.

 

[DistantGunfire]

Re: Chrysler 105hp water flow help! PLEASE!

Fantastic info guys! Thanks a million.

Now i'm in the process of putting the head back on. Does anyone know the torque at which the bolts are done up to?

Again, Many Thanks

Chris