checking valve clearance

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: checking valve clearance

Is the engine making a tapping sound? If it isn't leave well enough alone. If you really want to, pull the cover and there they are.
 

hondon

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Re: checking valve clearance

That is just dangerous info .Valve clearances get tighter as your engine wears in and a tight valve will offer up hard starts and uneven idle.A tight valve makes no noise at all.
 

rodbolt

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Re: checking valve clearance

I agree with Hondon.<br /> by the time they start tapping,if the get loose, odds are you will damage a cam, if they get tight it leads to burned valves due to the hot combustion gasses under pressure will erode the face and seat.<br /> sounds like you need a service manual and a reading session before a wrenching session to gain an understanding of the valvetrain and how and why it functions.<br /> good luck and keep posting
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: checking valve clearance

Guys,<br /><br />It's an 03. Unless he has over 2000 hours on it, which I'm sure he doesn't, he does not need to worry about it. On the other hand, it probably was not the best advice in the world. It is always safer to follow the guidelines in the end.
 

rodbolt

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Re: checking valve clearance

internetoutboards. I almost tend to agree. 99% I check are fine. but sometimes they are not. its the 1% ya gotta gamble with.<br />whats funny was years ago in my youth I work at a porsche mazda volkswagon dealer. we had an older gentalman that kept bringing his 626 back and complaining of valve noise. the dumbell service manager finally told the tech to close up the clearence so the noise would go away. 3 weeks later I got the workorder to repair the burned valves. when I was done, knowing the history, I finnished the job by bolting a piece of 1/4 felt pad inside the rocker cover. it dampened the noise enough that the man accepted it and all were happy. I often wonder what the next tech thought when he or she opened it up :) :) .<br />sometimes if you cant educate the customer ya have to baffle them
 

Skinnywater

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Re: checking valve clearance

I finnished the job by bolting a piece of 1/4 felt pad inside the rocker cover.
Strange way to fix worn rocker shafts. :D <br /><br /> <br />coldwaterboater,<br />As per Honda Marine Shop Manuel.<br /><br />Valve clearance inspection must be performed with the engine cold.<br />1)Remove the engine cover.<br />2)Move the gearshift lever to "N" position.<br />3)Remove the four 6x25mm flange bolts and three 6mm plain washers from the flywheel cover.<br />4)Remove the flywheel cover.<br />5)Disconnect the breather tube and oil return tube from the cylinder head cover.<br />6)Remove the sparkplugs and the engine hanger bracket.<br /><br /> CAUTION! <br />.The starter stopper collar is close to the flywheel and the starter ring gear can become sharp. Avoid hand contact with the starter stopper collar or flywheel ring gear.<br />Hold the upper portion of the flywheel when rotating engine.<br />.To avoid waterpump impeller damage, always turn the crankshaft in a counterclockwise direction.<br /><br />7)Manually turn the flywheel counterclockwise in the same direction of the arrow on the flywheel. Align the "T" mark on the flywheel with the "I" mark on top of the engine hanger mounting boss. The "Tv" mark on the cam will align with the "T^" mark on the cylinder head. In this position the No.1 piston is at top dead center of its compression stroke.<br />With the engine in this position, check the intake and exaust valve clearances of #1 cylinder by inserting a feelers guage between the valve stem and the adjusting screw on the rocker arm.<br /><br /> Valve clearance, <br />IN. 0.13-0.17MM (0.005-0.007in)<br />EX. 0.21-0.25mm (0.008-0.010in)<br /><br />8)Turn the flywheel counterclockwise until the cam pully turns an additional 120deg. and the "^2" mark aligns with the "T^" mark on the cylinder head. This will put the No.2 piston at TDC of its compression stroke. Check the inatke and exaust valve clearances on the No.2 cylinder.<br />9)Turn the flywheel counterclockwise until the cam pulley turns an additional 120deg. and the "^3" mark aligns with the "T^" mark on the cylinder head. This will put the No.3 piston at TDC of its compression stroke. Check the intake and exaust valve clearances on the No.3 cylinder.<br />10)Proceed to adjustment if necessary or install the removed parts in the reverse order of disassembly.<br /><br /> Adjustment <br />1)With the cylinder at TDC of its compression stroke, loosen the adjusting screw lock nut, and turn the adjusting screw to obtain the specified intake and exaust valve clearance.<br />2)Hold the adjusting screw using a screw driver, and tighten the lock nut.<br /> Torque:23Nm (16.6 ft-lb) <br />3)Recheck valve clearance after tightening the lock nut.<br />4)Install the removed parts in reverse order of disassembly.<br />-------------------------------<br />If your going to miss a valve adjustment check, the intial 20hr isn't the one to miss. This is the break-in adjustment.<br />Checking valve adjustment deserves alot more attention then what brand oil you're using.<br /><br />I adjusted my valves at the recommended intial 20hr. service interval. I adjusted a loose #3 exaust valve clearance. At 100hrs. I adjusted a loose #1 intake valve clearance.<br />At 200hrs. no adjustment was needed.<br /> They will be checked again in another 10 or so hours, at 300 hrs.<br /><br />Valve clearances tighten substantially at cold temperatures. A valve with tight clearances on a 70deg. day is one thing. That same clearance goes away on a 20deg. day. Immediately resulting in a terrible coldstart and rough running while the engine warms up.<br />A common complaint with the BF50.<br /><br />BTW, my cambelt needs and gets an adjustment pretty regular.<br />It's a very simple proceedure also. <br />Buy the FSM. ;)
 

rodbolt

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Re: checking valve clearance

skinnywater<br /> the mazda engine had thess than 10,000 miles. itwas caused by the customer complaining of rocker noise and the sevice manager told a tech to tighten up the lash. that caused exhastvalves to burn. a piece of felt will blanket thenoise and the man was happy. goes to what i say, if you cant dazzle them baffle them. rocker shafts were notworn atal. the 626 engine just made rocker noise atidle.
 

MajBach

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Re: checking valve clearance

Can someone elaborate on 'tight valves'? I have done several inspections and adjustments of valve clearances on two motorcycles and two or three of my previous cars. I am no mechanic but I have an understanding of what I am doing - plus I follow a manual.<br />But I am curious as to how such a fraction of an inch in clearances can cause burning, poor starts and uneven idle. I thought the purpose of adjusting valves(in addition to the noise) was to simply reduce the stresses the valves would experience when clearances are to great.
 

rodbolt

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Re: checking valve clearance

Majbac<br /> the camshaft lobe has opening ramps as well as closing ramps ground into the profile. its not just an egg shaped piece of metal. when at most operating temps the ramp takes up the slack gently then opens the valve and the closing ramp allows rapid closing of the valve then slows the closing speed some to prevent pounding the valve on the seat. the valve clearence is also a function of thermal expansion. in my motors,chassis and electrical book it shows a chart of various valves and the stem elongation at various temps. funny thing is the expand for a while then actually shrank some.<br /> there are some other considerations as well. IE pusrod configuration, cam follower configuration or like the yamaha big fourstroke the cam actually rides on a shim pad on the valve stem end. so if a valve is to tight it can lead to hot gasses blowing past and eroding the face. if to loose it can cause rapid wear of the cam,rocker or follower as well as alter valve timing. most of the time as the engine ages the valve faces recede into the valve seat resulting in to little clearence. however its not uncommon to see them a bit loose sometimes.<br /> hope that helps a bit
 

Skinnywater

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Re: checking valve clearance

rodbolt said; <br />
most of the time as the engine ages the valve faces recede into the valve seat resulting in to little clearence.
rodbolt pretty much covered it, but here are a few other considerations.<br /><br />The head of an exaust valve is probably the hottest single part of an engine. The only time it has an opportunity to cool is when it is resting on its seat. This is a pretty short duration, so the contact has to be positive and complete.<br />Here are a few situations that hamper that contact.<br />Say a motor has a tight valve clearance on that 70 deg. day. Then temps start to drop with the season. That already tight clearance turns into no clearance. The valve is held off its seat while the engine is brought up to operating temps. The valve seat starts to collect carbon deposits on it. This carbon hampers proper cooling and sealing of the valve. Gasses start to leak past and make the problem worse. The valve and seat are no longer sealing or cooling.<br />As a valve and seat start to burn away, the clearance starts to go away more. Really to the point that the valve never makes positive contact with the seat. At this point the damage is done, a burnt valve and valve seat.
 

MajBach

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Re: checking valve clearance

Ok, great. The last part by Skinny really helped paint a better picture. SO generally then, when you adjust the valves with age/wear, are you closing the gap between the stem and lobe or increasing it?<br />Thanks
 

rodbolt

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Re: checking valve clearance

depends on if the clearence is loose or tight at the specified temp for adjustments. also depends on the valvetrain arragement. some check between the follower and stem some between the rocker and stem and others between the cam lobe and shim pad.<br /> good luck and keep posting
 

Skinnywater

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Re: checking valve clearance

SO generally then, when you adjust the valves with age/wear, are you closing the gap between the stem and lobe or increasing it?<br />
rodbolt is correct in his answer. ;) <br /><br />In my own words. <br /> Generally <br />Wear in the valvetrain, camshaft, tappets or followers, shims or pads and valve stem tip result in greater clearance, loose adjustment.<br />Wear or burning at the contact face of the valve, and contact surface of the valve seat and/or low ambient temperatures cause a decrease in valve clearance, tight adjustment.
 

hondon

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Re: checking valve clearance

Thank you Skinny.Now let's remember that these are steel valves wearing into an aluminum head.With all you've just said ,where do we all think that wear is likely to occur?
 

P.V.

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Re: checking valve clearance

Additionally, keep in mind that one man's ".07" is another man's ".09"! OR ".05"! for that matter!! Always, check, adjust,rotate, re-chsck, rotate and then recheck again!!
 

rodbolt

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Re: checking valve clearance

P.V.<br /> use a go no go feeler gauge. it eliminates feel
 

P.V.

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Re: checking valve clearance

Sure, but many/most techs/home "mechanics" use the good old reliable feeler guages they've been using for years! "I think they're rusting away at the bottm of the tool box, somewhere!! Now, If I could only read the measurement! It used to be stamp'd on this thing!!". That probably sounds more familar to most of us!! My point is/was, "unloading" the valve train by loosening up the adjustments should then entale readjusting each intake/exhust valve in whatever the "proper" order, and then rechecking again! Most home mechanics still adjust their ignition points (for those engines that still HAVE points) with a set of the above mention'd "feeler" guages vs. with a more accurate dwell meter. And for those who use a dwell meter, how many set it on the "high side" vs. the "low side"??? OOooppppssss! That's for a different post!
 

rodbolt

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Re: checking valve clearance

P.V.<br /> I have several sets of those feeler gauges :) :) . I also bought a set with the tips ground .002" smaller for the first 1/2" or so. they are also bent at a 45* angle and are desighned for valvetrain use. they are about 25 to 30 dollars a set but well worth the extra money. takes all the feel work out. just roll the engine to the proper position and insert the gauge. if the first one goes and the second step does not its correct.<br /> but yes I too have several sets that I have to check the thickness with my caliper first :)
 

Skinnywater

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Re: checking valve clearance

Push rather then pull the feeler guage through the gap. Think about the clearance you're checking and realize minimal drag of the guage through the gap is normal.<br /><br /><br />Posted by hondon;<br />
Now let's remember that these are steel valves wearing into an aluminum head.With all you've just said ,where do we all think that wear is likely to occur?
:) Nobody's going to bite on this one?
 
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